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Thread: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

  1. #11

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]


    *




    http://cache.profootballweekly.com/2...nts-mock-draft




    Interesting, since all of the picks are made by the teams' beat writers . . . . . except that Paul Schwartz made the Giants pick (Fleener), which*probably assures that we will not take Fleener.* The guy is an idiot.* *




    [/quote]




    I just don't get the Fleener love affair.* He might be there at 64 for all we know.* I would just be so dissappointed if we picked him.




    [/quote] Why? He's the best rated TE in this draft, played in a pro-style offense at Stanford under a coach who just took his NFL team to the NFC Championship, and he'll most likely be BPA on the boards if he drops to us. And oh yeah, we need a TE desperately. Why on earth would we take him?![/quote]




    He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.




    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense.* Our problems on offense are in the running game.* O line (where it seems there may not be value at 32) or RB (and there should be good value there at 32) would be my preference.




    D line, O line and RB.* to me those are our most pressing needs, especially if we deal Osi.




    TE is way down the list....WAY down the list.* Don't forget we also signed Bennett.

    [/quote]

    I think you have that reversed.

    Beckum was a Fleener (of the future) wannabe.

    Fleener is much more polished and accomplished then Beckum was coming out of college.

    Also Fleener is taller, faster and has better hands. He's the only high rated receiving TE in this draft that actually plays tight into the tackle (how we run our TEs).

    The knocks on his blocking are that he doesn't *standout* as a blocker, which isn't to say that he's bad at it (he also wasn't asked to block a ton either). It's brought up because it's the only possible knock people can find on his game. The idiot talk about "elite" burst is ridiculous ... name a TE in the NFL who has "elite" acceleration. And he runs a 40 as fast as any TE in the league.

    I don't think he'll be Jimmy Graham or Antonio Gates (he doesn't have that level of athleticism imo) but he could very well turn out to be a Rob Gronkowski.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  2. #12
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]





    http://cache.profootballweekly.com/2...nts-mock-draft




    Interesting, since all of the picks are made by the teams' beat writers . . . . . except that Paul Schwartz made the Giants pick (Fleener), whichprobably assures that we will not take Fleener. The guy is an idiot.




    [/quote]




    I just don't get the Fleener love affair. He might be there at 64 for all we know. I would just be so dissappointed if we picked him.




    [/quote] Why? He's the best rated TE in this draft, played in a pro-style offense at Stanford under a coach who just took his NFL team to the NFC Championship, and he'll most likely be BPA on the boards if he drops to us. And oh yeah, we need a TE desperately. Why on earth would we take him?![/quote]




    He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.




    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense. Our problems on offense are in the running game. O line (where it seems there may not be value at 32) or RB (and there should be good value there at 32) would be my preference.




    D line, O line and RB. to me those are our most pressing needs, especially if we deal Osi.




    TE is way down the list....WAY down the list. Don't forget we also signed Bennett.




    [/quote] I think you have that reversed. Beckum was a Fleener (of the future) wannabe. Fleener is much more polished and accomplished then Beckum was coming out of college. Also Fleener is taller, faster and has better hands. He's the only high rated receiving TE in this draft that actually plays tight into the tackle (how we run our TEs). The knocks on his blocking are that he doesn't *standout* as a blocker, which isn't to say that he's bad at it (he also wasn't asked to block a ton either). It's brought up because it's the only possible knock people can find on his game. The idiot talk about "elite" burst is ridiculous ... name a TE in the NFL who has "elite" acceleration. And he runs a 40 as fast as any TE in the league. I don't think he'll be Jimmy Graham or Antonio Gates (he doesn't have that level of athleticism imo) but he could very well turn out to be a Rob Gronkowski.[/quote]




    I think the kind of TE we need can be had in later rounds. It seems a reach in the context of our tendancies and our needs on the field. For another team, maybe not.




    We had pretty average at best TE play (in the pass catching side) and moved the ball well. I just think our running game is a huge problem. O line and RB seem to me to be great needs.




    Not saying that it's essential we address that in rounds one or two. Depends on value. But a TE there seems a poor decision.




    It could very well be that D line or RB may be the best value at 32. I still think thats where we are going.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #13
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]





    http://cache.profootballweekly.com/2...nts-mock-draft




    Interesting, since all of the picks are made by the teams' beat writers . . . . . except that Paul Schwartz made the Giants pick (Fleener), whichprobably assures that we will not take Fleener. The guy is an idiot.




    [/quote]




    I just don't get the Fleener love affair. He might be there at 64 for all we know. I would just be so dissappointed if we picked him.




    [/quote] Why? He's the best rated TE in this draft, played in a pro-style offense at Stanford under a coach who just took his NFL team to the NFC Championship, and he'll most likely be BPA on the boards if he drops to us. And oh yeah, we need a TE desperately. Why on earth would we take him?![/quote]




    He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.




    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense. Our problems on offense are in the running game. O line (where it seems there may not be value at 32) or RB (and there should be good value there at 32) would be my preference.




    D line, O line and RB. to me those are our most pressing needs, especially if we deal Osi.




    TE is way down the list....WAY down the list. Don't forget we also signed Bennett.




    [/quote] I think you have that reversed. Beckum was a Fleener (of the future) wannabe. Fleener is much more polished and accomplished then Beckum was coming out of college. Also Fleener is taller, faster and has better hands. He's the only high rated receiving TE in this draft that actually plays tight into the tackle (how we run our TEs). The knocks on his blocking are that he doesn't *standout* as a blocker, which isn't to say that he's bad at it (he also wasn't asked to block a ton either). It's brought up because it's the only possible knock people can find on his game. The idiot talk about "elite" burst is ridiculous ... name a TE in the NFL who has "elite" acceleration. And he runs a 40 as fast as any TE in the league. I don't think he'll be Jimmy Graham or Antonio Gates (he doesn't have that level of athleticism imo) but he could very well turn out to be a Rob Gronkowski.[/quote]




    I think the kind of TE we need can be had in later rounds. It seems a reach in the context of our tendancies and our needs on the field. For another team, maybe not.




    We had pretty average at best TE play (in the pass catching side) and moved the ball well. I just think our running game is a huge problem. O line and RB seem to me to be great needs.




    Not saying that it's essential we address that in rounds one or two. Depends on value. But a TE there seems a poor decision.




    It could very well be that D line or RB may be the best value at 32. I still think thats where we are going.

    [/quote]

    RB's come a dime a dozen, Bradshaw is a 7th rounder after all and so is Darrell Scott. Dont get how the RB position is a better value then say, a TE. We can easily find a quality RB later in the draft.

    Also, its not like Shockey or Boss could block coming out of college, both had the frame to learn how and they did once Pope got a chance to work with them, also, Fleener is probably a better pass catcher then both of them coming out. Not to mention he runs better routes and is taller and faster then either.

    I'm curious, Jimmy Graham is a bit of a liability in the run blocking game, would you not want him as well?

  4. #14

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Morehead State"]He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.





    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense.* [/quote] You havent actually watched Fleener play at all, have you?[/quote]


    Only highlights.* I admit that I don't know much about the kid.* And its not the point.*


    A TE who's not "all world" like Russ Francis, isn't worth our first round pick given our team's situation.* Our team has problems in the run game.* We threw for 5000 yards and have a great passing attack.* I know we need to go BPA.* I get that.* But a TE just makes no sense to me.


    On our team,* with the players we have now,* its not an impactful position.* Give me a TE who can block,* I mean really block, and who can occasionally go get a pass and pick up a big first down.* That would help the New York Giants.

    [/quote]

    I'll disagree on a few points.

    No one knows who will end up being a future HoFer coming out of the draft, even with the first overall pick.

    Tight End is currently a need position. We have Pascoe (a blocking utility TE brought up from the practice squad two years ago), Bennet (a cast off Comboy and another blocking TE with questionable work ethic), and Hopkins (currently on the practice squad and a total unknown at the NFL level).

    Of the projected value at the #32 pick, the two best players are likely to be Doug Martin (#2 RB) or Coby Fleener (#1 TE) or Harrison Smith (#2 SS). Both former positions have been previously filled with low draft picks and/or UFAs with the exception of Beckum who is injured and will start the season on the PuP list (if he's on the team at all) and Safety is defintely not a need position for us (i.e. he would most likely only be a ST player this year).

    Our other need positions (in my mind) are OT (won't have super value at #32), DT (better value than OT but still not an obvious standout) and DE (same as DT).

    The only other area of possible need (i.e. a potential starter in 2012) is a #3 WR which we'll probably have value at the #32 spot.

    So which would you pick ... a possible starting #1 TE, #2 RB, #3 WR, a questionable work ethic OT (Martin or Adams) or depth at the DE/DT/SS positions? The only other value pick that I see in the first round would be Amini Silatolu (OG/OT) but he's a small school project.

    The way I see it, drafting a high impact TE that could start in 2012 would not only solve our current TE woes, but would also give our #3 receiver role time to sort itself out, and possibly help the run game and pass protection (it's much easier to add 10-20 lbs on to a TE and teach them to block then it is to run routes and catch).

    Remember, we're talking about drafting the HIGHEST rated TE in the draft (in a draft that's not deep at TE I might add).

    Seems to me that drafting a play making TE gives us the most potential bang for our buck for our first round pick this year.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  5. #15

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Morehead State"]He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.





    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense.* [/quote] You havent actually watched Fleener play at all, have you?[/quote]


    Only highlights.* I admit that I don't know much about the kid.* And its not the point.*


    A TE who's not "all world" like Russ Francis, isn't worth our first round pick given our team's situation.* Our team has problems in the run game.* We threw for 5000 yards and have a great passing attack.* I know we need to go BPA.* I get that.* But a TE just makes no sense to me.


    On our team,* with the players we have now,* its not an impactful position.* Give me a TE who can block,* I mean really block, and who can occasionally go get a pass and pick up a big first down.* That would help the New York Giants.

    [/quote]

    I'll disagree on a few points.

    No one knows who will end up being a future HoFer coming out of the draft, even with the first overall pick.

    Tight End is currently a need position. We have Pascoe (a blocking utility TE brought up from the practice squad two years ago), Bennet (a cast off Comboy and another blocking TE with questionable work ethic), and Hopkins (currently on the practice squad and a total unknown at the NFL level).

    Of the projected value at the #32 pick, the two best players are likely to be Doug Martin (#2 RB) or Coby Fleener (#1 TE) or Harrison Smith (#2 SS). Both former positions have been previously filled with low draft picks and/or UFAs with the exception of Beckum who is injured and will start the season on the PuP list (if he's on the team at all) and Safety is defintely not a need position for us (i.e. he would most likely only be a ST player this year).

    Our other need positions (in my mind) are OT (won't have super value at #32), DT (better value than OT but still not an obvious standout) and DE (same as DT).

    The only other area of possible need (i.e. a potential starter in 2012) is a #3 WR which we'll probably have value at the #32 spot.

    So which would you pick ... a possible starting #1 TE, #2 RB, #3 WR, a questionable work ethic OT (Martin or Adams) or depth at the DE/DT/SS positions? The only other value pick that I see in the first round would be Amini Silatolu (OG/OT) but he's a small school project.

    The way I see it, drafting a high impact TE that could start in 2012 would not only solve our current TE woes, but would also give our #3 receiver role time to sort itself out, and possibly help the run game and pass protection (it's much easier to add 10-20 lbs on to a TE and teach them to block then it is to run routes and catch).

    Remember, we're talking about drafting the HIGHEST rated TE in the draft (in a draft that's not deep at TE I might add).

    Seems to me that drafting a play making TE gives us the most potential bang for our buck for our first round pick this year.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  6. #16
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Morehead State"]He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.





    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense. [/quote] You havent actually watched Fleener play at all, have you?[/quote]


    Only highlights. I admit that I don't know much about the kid. And its not the point.


    A TE who's not "all world" like Russ Francis, isn't worth our first round pick given our team's situation. Our team has problems in the run game. We threw for 5000 yards and have a great passing attack. I know we need to go BPA. I get that. But a TE just makes no sense to me.


    On our team, with the players we have now, its not an impactful position. Give me a TE who can block, I mean really block, and who can occasionally go get a pass and pick up a big first down. That would help the New York Giants.




    [/quote] I'll disagree on a few points. No one knows who will end up being a future HoFer coming out of the draft, even with the first overall pick. Tight End is currently a need position. We have Pascoe (a blocking utility TE brought up from the practice squad two years ago), Bennet (a cast off Comboy and another blocking TE with questionable work ethic), and Hopkins (currently on the practice squad and a total unknown at the NFL level). Of the projected value at the #32 pick, the two best players are likely to be Doug Martin (#2 RB) or Coby Fleener (#1 TE). Both positions have been previously filled with low draft picks and/or UFAs with the exception of Beckum who is injured and will start the season on the PuP list (if he's on the team at all). Our other need positions (in my mind) are OT (won't have super value at #32), DT (better value than OT but still not an obvious standout) and DE (same as DT). The only other area of possible need (i.e. a potential starter in 2012) is a #3 WR which we'll probably have value at the #32 spot. So which would you pick ... a possible starting #1 TE, #2 RB, #3 WR or depth at the DE/DT position? The way I see it, drafting a high impact TE that could start in 2012 would not only solve our current TE woes, but would also give our #3 receiver role time to sort itself out, and possibly help the run game and pass protection (it's much easier to add 10-20 lbs on to a TE and teach them to block then it is to run routes and catch). Seems to me that drafting a play making TE gives us the most potential bang for our buck for our first round pick this year.[/quote]




    I've already stated on the MB that I prefer David Wilson at this point. I've also said that I doubt we will pick him. My prediction was Chandler Jones but now it seems that he would be gone at 32.




    You are right about the O line value at 32 but it is possible that Jonathan Martin could drop to us, but still unlikely.




    So my prediction (not my preference) is Still or a DE if one drops to us. especially with my hope that we deal Osi.




    But again, if we take a TE, he better be a great blocker in the run game. THAT's what we need. And I beleive that can be had later in the draft.




    And I would also submit that an enhanced running game will benefit our WR situation more than a rookie TE. Plus they drafted JJ foir a reason. I truly think the FO believes in his abilty to develop into an effective #3.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  7. #17

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Morehead State"]He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.





    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense.* [/quote] You havent actually watched Fleener play at all, have you?[/quote]


    Only highlights.* I admit that I don't know much about the kid.* And its not the point.*


    A TE who's not "all world" like Russ Francis, isn't worth our first round pick given our team's situation.* Our team has problems in the run game.* We threw for 5000 yards and have a great passing attack.* I know we need to go BPA.* I get that.* But a TE just makes no sense to me.


    On our team,* with the players we have now,* its not an impactful position.* Give me a TE who can block,* I mean really block, and who can occasionally go get a pass and pick up a big first down.* That would help the New York Giants.




    [/quote] I'll disagree on a few points. No one knows who will end up being a future HoFer coming out of the draft, even with the first overall pick. Tight End is currently a need position. We have Pascoe (a blocking utility TE brought up from the practice squad two years ago), Bennet (a cast off Comboy and another blocking TE with questionable work ethic), and Hopkins (currently on the practice squad and a total unknown at the NFL level). Of the projected value at the #32 pick, the two best players are likely to be Doug Martin (#2 RB) or Coby Fleener (#1 TE). Both positions have been previously filled with low draft picks and/or UFAs with the exception of Beckum who is injured and will start the season on the PuP list (if he's on the team at all). Our other need positions (in my mind) are OT (won't have super value at #32), DT (better value than OT but still not an obvious standout) and DE (same as DT). The only other area of possible need (i.e. a potential starter in 2012) is a #3 WR which we'll probably have value at the #32 spot. So which would you pick ... a possible starting #1 TE, #2 RB, #3 WR or depth at the DE/DT position? The way I see it, drafting a high impact TE that could start in 2012 would not only solve our current TE woes, but would also give our #3 receiver role time to sort itself out, and possibly help the run game and pass protection (it's much easier to add 10-20 lbs on to a TE and teach them to block then it is to run routes and catch). Seems to me that drafting a play making TE gives us the most potential bang for our buck for our first round pick this year.[/quote]




    I've already stated on the MB that I prefer David Wilson at this point.** I've also said that I doubt we will pick him.* My prediction was Chandler Jones but now it seems that he would be gone at 32.




    You are right about the O line value at 32 but it is possible that Jonathan Martin could drop to us, but still unlikely.




    So my prediction (not my preference) is Still or a DE if one drops to us.* especially with my hope that we deal Osi.




    But again, if we take a TE, he better be a great blocker in the run game.* THAT's what we need.* And I beleive that can be had later in the draft.




    And I would also submit that an enhanced running game will benefit our WR situation more than a rookie TE.* Plus they drafted JJ foir a reason.* I truly think the FO believes in his abilty to develop into an effective #3.

    [/quote]

    Chandler Jones should be available when we pick at #32 (I highly doubt he goes in the first round before us) and I agree in that I think there's a better than even chance the Giants will go this direction if he is.

    Also, given Reese's drafting history of first and second round picks, I'll be excited to watch anyone we pick.

    My point was only that I would be happy with choosing Coby Fleener and I fail to see why you should be surprised by either if they draft him or why so many people are talking about him and the Giants (whether you'd like him or not being regardless).
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  8. #18

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Morehead State"]He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.





    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense.* [/quote] You havent actually watched Fleener play at all, have you?[/quote]


    Only highlights.* I admit that I don't know much about the kid.* And its not the point.*


    A TE who's not "all world" like Russ Francis, isn't worth our first round pick given our team's situation.* Our team has problems in the run game.* We threw for 5000 yards and have a great passing attack.* I know we need to go BPA.* I get that.* But a TE just makes no sense to me.


    On our team,* with the players we have now,* its not an impactful position.* Give me a TE who can block,* I mean really block, and who can occasionally go get a pass and pick up a big first down.* That would help the New York Giants.

    [/quote]

    I'll disagree on a few points.

    No one knows who will end up being a future HoFer coming out of the draft, even with the first overall pick.

    Tight End is currently a need position. We have Pascoe (a blocking utility TE brought up from the practice squad two years ago), Bennet (a cast off Comboy and another blocking TE with questionable work ethic), and Hopkins (currently on the practice squad and a total unknown at the NFL level).

    Of the projected value at the #32 pick, the two best players are likely to be Doug Martin (#2 RB) or Coby Fleener (#1 TE) or Harrison Smith (#2 SS). Both former positions have been previously filled with low draft picks and/or UFAs with the exception of Beckum who is injured and will start the season on the PuP list (if he's on the team at all) and Safety is defintely not a need position for us (i.e. he would most likely only be a ST player this year).

    Our other need positions (in my mind) are OT (won't have super value at #32), DT (better value than OT but still not an obvious standout) and DE (same as DT).

    The only other area of possible need (i.e. a potential starter in 2012) is a #3 WR which we'll probably have value at the #32 spot.

    So which would you pick ... a possible starting #1 TE, #2 RB, #3 WR, a questionable work ethic OT (Martin or Adams) or depth at the DE/DT/SS positions? The only other value pick that I see in the first round would be Amini Silatolu (OG/OT) but he's a small school project.

    The way I see it, drafting a high impact TE that could start in 2012 would not only solve our current TE woes, but would also give our #3 receiver role time to sort itself out, and possibly help the run game and pass protection (it's much easier to add 10-20 lbs on to a TE and teach them to block then it is to run routes and catch).

    Remember, we're talking about drafting the HIGHEST rated TE in the draft (in a draft that's not deep at TE I might add).

    Seems to me that drafting a play making TE gives us the most potential bang for our buck for our first round pick this year.[/quote]When your picking #32 lower value positions like TE,RB,LB ,Interior OLine come into play because U can get the best 1 in the draft. U have a choice of taking the 4th or 5th best DE,DT,OT or the best at a lower value spot. Fleener to me gives the Giants offense outstanding flexibility. They would have 7 inline blockers and still have 3 explosive playmakers in the passing game

  9. #19

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"]When your picking #32 lower value positions like TE,RB,LB ,Interior OLine come into play because U can get the best 1 in the draft. U have a choice of taking the 4th or 5th best DE,DT,OT or the best at a lower value spot. Fleener to me gives the Giants offense outstanding flexibility. They would have 7 inline blockers and still have 3 explosive playmakers in the passing game[/quote]

    Exactly my point of view as well.

    Damn your clarity and brevity!
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  10. #20

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    if LaMichael james is there in the 2nd round I'd grab him. COuld be their version of Darren Sproles

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