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Thread: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

  1. #41

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"]We should PM when the 31st pick is made when we know who's on the board, and predict what we do.[/quote]

    Sure although I'm betting the cell phone coverage will tip it off.
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  2. #42

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"]Bennett is extreemly athletic but there is no doubt that he has underperformed in the NFL.* But he can block and should be a huge assett in the running game.* Right now I'm more concerned with that aspect of our offense than any other.* One of the reasons in my view that Eli took so much punishment last season, including the playoffs was our lack of a running attack.* Just don't see how the addition of a pass catching rookie TE will help us in that.





    [/quote] The thing you're missing here is that Bennet won't freeze a Safety or LB because he isn't considered a receiving threat on play action / option plays. Bennet can block but he's not an amazing blocker. Fleener can block but he's not an amazing blocker. Fleener also has the upside of being a very real threat in the passing game. If that pans out, that means one less person stuffing the box. One of the problems we had running the ball lately stems from not having a TE that can threaten down field (Ballard/Pascoe being mediocre at best and less than reliable down the stretch). Accordingly, our dynamic passing game relied on having a third stready outlet (be it MM as the #3 or our TE). We have effectively lost both due to free agency and injury for 2012. Fleener gives us the potential to partially solve our run-game, while at the same time gives us the highest probability of continuing our dynamic passing game as opposed to anyone else projected to be drafted at the #32 spot or that we currently have on our team. I'd call that a pretty big arguement for drafting him if he's available. More so than any other possible draftee. Hence the love affair.[/quote]




    First of all Fleener (or any other draftee at 32) is a college football player and a pro prospect.* We don't know what he would do, or learn to do at the pro level.




    All you can do is draft the best prospects and coach them up.* To put Fleener in as a starter in your projections this upcoming season is a huge leap.* Rarely does a rookie TE contribute in the way you are suggesting.**




    Maybe you're right about his potential contribution but there is a bit of rationalization in this argument.* It assumes a lot and would represent "best case" scenario to me.




    Are there other TE's in the draft that could adddress the kinds of needs we have that can be taken in later rounds?* Probably.




    I have a feeling that someone is dropping to us.* Maybe Jonathon Martin, maybe the DE from USC, maybe Chandler Jones.* I mean Prince dropped in our lap last draft and I think he's going to be a great pro.




    But I do think we are best served with a player that can help us in the running game.




    [/quote] Hence why I said "potential". If you consider the draft order a probability in potential (which is all that it really is) Fleener gives us the most potential upside THIS YEAR. That's not to say he would be the best player in the draft, our team or work out at all. Just that he POTENTIALLY plugs the greatest amount of holes/question marks on our team. All in one player. A great RB that can catch, block and run behind our inconsistent blocking would also do that for us, I agree. So in our debate here, it comes down to who gives us the greatest probability for doing so; the #1 rated TE in the draft, or the #2 (or #3 if we're going with Wilson) rated RB in the draft? I'd be fine with saying flip a coin. I don't think either has a measurable difference ... not enough to say definitively (as opposed to say the differences between Hightower and Kuechly lets say) and I'd be happy with either. If we DID go RB in the first, I think Martin (in the short term at least) gives us more upside then Wilson. Martin seemed to do better behind shoddy blocking then Wilson did; although Wilson is the more prototypical back (and possibly better compliment to AB).[/quote]




    Those Boise guys don't do much better than Uconn guys in the NFL.




    [/quote] True ... but the same thing could be said of Morehead State and QBs until Simms. [b][/quote]




    Every Morehead State QB ever drafted has been their NFL team's all time leading passer.




    Hahaha!!

    [/quote]

    Adrian Breene says "I was?!"
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  3. #43
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"]Bennett is extreemly athletic but there is no doubt that he has underperformed in the NFL. But he can block and should be a huge assett in the running game. Right now I'm more concerned with that aspect of our offense than any other. One of the reasons in my view that Eli took so much punishment last season, including the playoffs was our lack of a running attack. Just don't see how the addition of a pass catching rookie TE will help us in that.





    [/quote] The thing you're missing here is that Bennet won't freeze a Safety or LB because he isn't considered a receiving threat on play action / option plays. Bennet can block but he's not an amazing blocker. Fleener can block but he's not an amazing blocker. Fleener also has the upside of being a very real threat in the passing game. If that pans out, that means one less person stuffing the box. One of the problems we had running the ball lately stems from not having a TE that can threaten down field (Ballard/Pascoe being mediocre at best and less than reliable down the stretch). Accordingly, our dynamic passing game relied on having a third stready outlet (be it MM as the #3 or our TE). We have effectively lost both due to free agency and injury for 2012. Fleener gives us the potential to partially solve our run-game, while at the same time gives us the highest probability of continuing our dynamic passing game as opposed to anyone else projected to be drafted at the #32 spot or that we currently have on our team. I'd call that a pretty big arguement for drafting him if he's available. More so than any other possible draftee. Hence the love affair.[/quote]




    First of all Fleener (or any other draftee at 32) is a college football player and a pro prospect. We don't know what he would do, or learn to do at the pro level.




    All you can do is draft the best prospects and coach them up. To put Fleener in as a starter in your projections this upcoming season is a huge leap. Rarely does a rookie TE contribute in the way you are suggesting.




    Maybe you're right about his potential contribution but there is a bit of rationalization in this argument. It assumes a lot and would represent "best case" scenario to me.




    Are there other TE's in the draft that could adddress the kinds of needs we have that can be taken in later rounds? Probably.




    I have a feeling that someone is dropping to us. Maybe Jonathon Martin, maybe the DE from USC, maybe Chandler Jones. I mean Prince dropped in our lap last draft and I think he's going to be a great pro.




    But I do think we are best served with a player that can help us in the running game.




    [/quote] Hence why I said "potential". If you consider the draft order a probability in potential (which is all that it really is) Fleener gives us the most potential upside THIS YEAR. That's not to say he would be the best player in the draft, our team or work out at all. Just that he POTENTIALLY plugs the greatest amount of holes/question marks on our team. All in one player. A great RB that can catch, block and run behind our inconsistent blocking would also do that for us, I agree. So in our debate here, it comes down to who gives us the greatest probability for doing so; the #1 rated TE in the draft, or the #2 (or #3 if we're going with Wilson) rated RB in the draft? I'd be fine with saying flip a coin. I don't think either has a measurable difference ... not enough to say definitively (as opposed to say the differences between Hightower and Kuechly lets say) and I'd be happy with either. If we DID go RB in the first, I think Martin (in the short term at least) gives us more upside then Wilson. Martin seemed to do better behind shoddy blocking then Wilson did; although Wilson is the more prototypical back (and possibly better compliment to AB).[/quote]




    Those Boise guys don't do much better than Uconn guys in the NFL.




    [/quote] True ... but the same thing could be said of Morehead State and QBs until Simms. [b][/quote]




    Every Morehead State QB ever drafted has been their NFL team's all time leading passer.




    Hahaha!!




    [/quote] Adrian Breene says "I was?!"[/quote]




    Haha..I just looked him up. he has the lowest Int % in Bengal history.







    I have no idea where you got that "Adrian Breen" reference.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  4. #44

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"]

    Haha..I just looked him up.* he has the lowest Int % in Bengal history.




    *




    I have no idea where you got that "Adrian Breen" reference.

    [/quote]

    In the whole one game he started for them? lol

    Pro Football Reference is great for oddball stats like that:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/

    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

  5. #45

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    I think Orson Charles and Dwayne Allen could do just as much for our passing game as Fleener and they wouldn't cost us a 1st round pick. I know they're not as tall, but neither is Vernon Davis. I have no idea out of the 3 who would be a better blocker.

  6. #46

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="critters"]I think Orson Charles and Dwayne Allen could do just as much for our passing game as Fleener and they wouldn't cost us a 1st round pick. I know they're not as tall, but neither is Vernon Davis. I have no idea out of the 3 who would be a better blocker.
    [/quote]

    Allen is the best Blocker and he has a nice wide body, preferable for blocking. He also had experience as a lead blocker. People say Fleener can develop, and he could, but that is never a certainty.

    To me, Charles has really hurt himself this offseason by trying to be what he is not. He is not an end line TE. However, he bulked up so much going into the combine, trying to appeal to the teams needing an end line TE that he tooked tight in receiving drills. Even with his added bulk, he is a guy who should be in a hback or slot position. He can block a LB or safety but you really dont want him trying to seal block vs a DE. His arms are just too short.







  7. #47

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="critters"]I think Orson Charles and Dwayne Allen could do just as much for our passing game as Fleener and they wouldn't cost us a 1st round pick. I know they're not as tall, but neither is Vernon Davis. I have no idea out of the 3 who would be a better blocker.
    [/quote]

    None of those guys are Vernon David physically.

    Dwayne Allen would most likely need to be a first round pick if we wanted him (chances are he goes in the second round somewhere ahead of us).

    Orson Charles ... meh. I'd wait until the 3rd and take Ladarius Green if I was going that route.

    Out of that bunch Allen is considered the better blocker but Fleener probably has more upside at blocking at the NFL level (bigger frame to add more weight).
    I don't always root for the Cowboys but when I do I wear my pink Jessica Simpson edition Romo jersey. (yes I lost a bet)

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