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  1. #21
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Morehead State"]He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.





    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense. [/quote] You havent actually watched Fleener play at all, have you?[/quote]


    Only highlights. I admit that I don't know much about the kid. And its not the point.


    A TE who's not "all world" like Russ Francis, isn't worth our first round pick given our team's situation. Our team has problems in the run game. We threw for 5000 yards and have a great passing attack. I know we need to go BPA. I get that. But a TE just makes no sense to me.


    On our team, with the players we have now, its not an impactful position. Give me a TE who can block, I mean really block, and who can occasionally go get a pass and pick up a big first down. That would help the New York Giants.




    [/quote] I'll disagree on a few points. No one knows who will end up being a future HoFer coming out of the draft, even with the first overall pick. Tight End is currently a need position. We have Pascoe (a blocking utility TE brought up from the practice squad two years ago), Bennet (a cast off Comboy and another blocking TE with questionable work ethic), and Hopkins (currently on the practice squad and a total unknown at the NFL level). Of the projected value at the #32 pick, the two best players are likely to be Doug Martin (#2 RB) or Coby Fleener (#1 TE) or Harrison Smith (#2 SS). Both former positions have been previously filled with low draft picks and/or UFAs with the exception of Beckum who is injured and will start the season on the PuP list (if he's on the team at all) and Safety is defintely not a need position for us (i.e. he would most likely only be a ST player this year). Our other need positions (in my mind) are OT (won't have super value at #32), DT (better value than OT but still not an obvious standout) and DE (same as DT). The only other area of possible need (i.e. a potential starter in 2012) is a #3 WR which we'll probably have value at the #32 spot. So which would you pick ... a possible starting #1 TE, #2 RB, #3 WR, a questionable work ethic OT (Martin or Adams) or depth at the DE/DT/SS positions? The only other value pick that I see in the first round would be Amini Silatolu (OG/OT) but he's a small school project. The way I see it, drafting a high impact TE that could start in 2012 would not only solve our current TE woes, but would also give our #3 receiver role time to sort itself out, and possibly help the run game and pass protection (it's much easier to add 10-20 lbs on to a TE and teach them to block then it is to run routes and catch). Remember, we're talking about drafting the HIGHEST rated TE in the draft (in a draft that's not deep at TE I might add). Seems to me that drafting a play making TE gives us the most potential bang for our buck for our first round pick this year.[/quote]When your picking #32 lower value positions like TE,RB,LB ,Interior OLine come into play because U can get the best 1 in the draft. U have a choice of taking the 4th or 5th best DE,DT,OT or the best at a lower value spot. Fleener to me gives the Giants offense outstanding flexibility. They would have 7 inline blockers and still have 3 explosive playmakers in the passing game[/quote]




    Its an interesting point but I still don't see how Fleener automatically gives us "more flexibility" in our offense. What would definately give us more flexibility is an enhanced running game. I don't see how a rookie TE is going to have that kind of impact. especially since he would undoubtedly NOT start ahead of Bennett. (who seems to have the same or better skill set as Fleener) and could very well be poised to break out as a contributor on offense. And Bennett can run block as well.




    It seems that the Bennett signing reduces substantially the possibility of our drafting Fleener. I just don't like the Giants using a first rounder on a TE given our already great dynamic passing game.




    It seems to me a better course is developing a better running attack andenhancing our D lineas a better use of early picks.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  2. #22
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)



    [quote user="RonJon"]if LaMichael james is there in the 2nd round I'd grab him. COuld be their version of Darren Sproles[/quote]




    James is a huge red flag to me since they pulled him out of the USC game late when they were staging their huge comeback. That scares the hell out of me since the coaching staff didn't value him in that huge spot.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #23
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Morehead State"]He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.





    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense. [/quote] You havent actually watched Fleener play at all, have you?[/quote]



    Only highlights. I admit that I don't know much about the kid. And its not the point.



    A TE who's not "all world" like Russ Francis, isn't worth our first round pick given our team's situation. Our team has problems in the run game. We threw for 5000 yards and have a great passing attack. I know we need to go BPA. I get that. But a TE just makes no sense to me.



    On our team, with the players we have now, its not an impactful position. Give me a TE who can block, I mean really block, and who can occasionally go get a pass and pick up a big first down. That would help the New York Giants.




    [/quote] I'll disagree on a few points. No one knows who will end up being a future HoFer coming out of the draft, even with the first overall pick. Tight End is currently a need position. We have Pascoe (a blocking utility TE brought up from the practice squad two years ago), Bennet (a cast off Comboy and another blocking TE with questionable work ethic), and Hopkins (currently on the practice squad and a total unknown at the NFL level). Of the projected value at the #32 pick, the two best players are likely to be Doug Martin (#2 RB) or Coby Fleener (#1 TE) or Harrison Smith (#2 SS). Both former positions have been previously filled with low draft picks and/or UFAs with the exception of Beckum who is injured and will start the season on the PuP list (if he's on the team at all) and Safety is defintely not a need position for us (i.e. he would most likely only be a ST player this year). Our other need positions (in my mind) are OT (won't have super value at #32), DT (better value than OT but still not an obvious standout) and DE (same as DT). The only other area of possible need (i.e. a potential starter in 2012) is a #3 WR which we'll probably have value at the #32 spot. So which would you pick ... a possible starting #1 TE, #2 RB, #3 WR, a questionable work ethic OT (Martin or Adams) or depth at the DE/DT/SS positions? The only other value pick that I see in the first round would be Amini Silatolu (OG/OT) but he's a small school project. The way I see it, drafting a high impact TE that could start in 2012 would not only solve our current TE woes, but would also give our #3 receiver role time to sort itself out, and possibly help the run game and pass protection (it's much easier to add 10-20 lbs on to a TE and teach them to block then it is to run routes and catch). Remember, we're talking about drafting the HIGHEST rated TE in the draft (in a draft that's not deep at TE I might add). Seems to me that drafting a play making TE gives us the most potential bang for our buck for our first round pick this year.[/quote]When your picking #32 lower value positions like TE,RB,LB ,Interior OLine come into play because U can get the best 1 in the draft. U have a choice of taking the 4th or 5th best DE,DT,OT or the best at a lower value spot. Fleener to me gives the Giants offense outstanding flexibility. They would have 7 inline blockers and still have 3 explosive playmakers in the passing game[/quote]




    Its an interesting point but I still don't see how Fleener automatically gives us "more flexibility" in our offense. What would definately give us more flexibility is an enhanced running game. I don't see how a rookie TE is going to have that kind of impact. especially since he would undoubtedly NOT start ahead of Bennett. (who seems to have the same or better skill set as Fleener) and could very well be poised to break out as a contributor on offense. And Bennett can run block as well.




    It seems that the Bennett signing reduces substantially the possibility of our drafting Fleener. I just don't like the Giants using a first rounder on a TE given our already great dynamic passing game.




    It seems to me a better course is developing a better running attack andenhancing our D lineas a better use of early picks.

    [/quote]

    Enhancing the D-line is absolutely the number 1 priority. However if no one of value remains why reach for a player? and Bennett has done NOTHING in his career to say that he has a better skill set then Fleener, better blocker for sure, but it ends there. He has been characterized as lazy and someone that has not worked hard at all on his craft. Now he has signed a 1 year deal in hopes of cashing in big next year but he is anything but a sure thing.

    Fleener at 32 presents a good value, it never hurts getting the best player at his position in the draft at 32. Not to mention, the kid is 6'6 runs a 4.5 forty with speed and excellent route running. Something that Bennett has never shown the ability to do. Together they would be excellent though.

  4. #24
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="CGYgiant"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="Redeyejedi"][quote user="Kruunch"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="Morehead State"]He's a Travis Beckum wannabe.





    Unless this kid can block (which he can't) he serves no real purpose for our offense. [/quote] You havent actually watched Fleener play at all, have you?[/quote]




    Only highlights. I admit that I don't know much about the kid. And its not the point.




    A TE who's not "all world" like Russ Francis, isn't worth our first round pick given our team's situation. Our team has problems in the run game. We threw for 5000 yards and have a great passing attack. I know we need to go BPA. I get that. But a TE just makes no sense to me.




    On our team, with the players we have now, its not an impactful position. Give me a TE who can block, I mean really block, and who can occasionally go get a pass and pick up a big first down. That would help the New York Giants.




    [/quote] I'll disagree on a few points. No one knows who will end up being a future HoFer coming out of the draft, even with the first overall pick. Tight End is currently a need position. We have Pascoe (a blocking utility TE brought up from the practice squad two years ago), Bennet (a cast off Comboy and another blocking TE with questionable work ethic), and Hopkins (currently on the practice squad and a total unknown at the NFL level). Of the projected value at the #32 pick, the two best players are likely to be Doug Martin (#2 RB) or Coby Fleener (#1 TE) or Harrison Smith (#2 SS). Both former positions have been previously filled with low draft picks and/or UFAs with the exception of Beckum who is injured and will start the season on the PuP list (if he's on the team at all) and Safety is defintely not a need position for us (i.e. he would most likely only be a ST player this year). Our other need positions (in my mind) are OT (won't have super value at #32), DT (better value than OT but still not an obvious standout) and DE (same as DT). The only other area of possible need (i.e. a potential starter in 2012) is a #3 WR which we'll probably have value at the #32 spot. So which would you pick ... a possible starting #1 TE, #2 RB, #3 WR, a questionable work ethic OT (Martin or Adams) or depth at the DE/DT/SS positions? The only other value pick that I see in the first round would be Amini Silatolu (OG/OT) but he's a small school project. The way I see it, drafting a high impact TE that could start in 2012 would not only solve our current TE woes, but would also give our #3 receiver role time to sort itself out, and possibly help the run game and pass protection (it's much easier to add 10-20 lbs on to a TE and teach them to block then it is to run routes and catch). Remember, we're talking about drafting the HIGHEST rated TE in the draft (in a draft that's not deep at TE I might add). Seems to me that drafting a play making TE gives us the most potential bang for our buck for our first round pick this year.[/quote]When your picking #32 lower value positions like TE,RB,LB ,Interior OLine come into play because U can get the best 1 in the draft. U have a choice of taking the 4th or 5th best DE,DT,OT or the best at a lower value spot. Fleener to me gives the Giants offense outstanding flexibility. They would have 7 inline blockers and still have 3 explosive playmakers in the passing game[/quote]




    Its an interesting point but I still don't see how Fleener automatically gives us "more flexibility" in our offense. What would definately give us more flexibility is an enhanced running game. I don't see how a rookie TE is going to have that kind of impact. especially since he would undoubtedly NOT start ahead of Bennett. (who seems to have the same or better skill set as Fleener) and could very well be poised to break out as a contributor on offense. And Bennett can run block as well.




    It seems that the Bennett signing reduces substantially the possibility of our drafting Fleener. I just don't like the Giants using a first rounder on a TE given our already great dynamic passing game.




    It seems to me a better course is developing a better running attack andenhancing our D lineas a better use of early picks.




    [/quote]

    Enhancing the D-line is absolutely the number 1 priority. However if no one of value remains why reach for a player? and Bennett has done NOTHING in his career to say that he has a better skill set then Fleener, better blocker for sure, but it ends there. He has been characterized as lazy and someone that has not worked hard at all on his craft. Now he has signed a 1 year deal in hopes of cashing in big next year but he is anything but a sure thing.

    Fleener at 32 presents a good value, it never hurts getting the best player at his position in the draft at 32. Not to mention, the kid is 6'6 runs a 4.5 forty with speed and excellent route running. Something that Bennett has never shown the ability to do. Together they would be excellent though.
    [/quote]




    Bennett is extreemly athletic but there is no doubt that he has underperformed in the NFL. But he can block and should be a huge assett in the running game. Right now I'm more concerned with that aspect of our offense than any other. One of the reasons in my view that Eli took so much punishment last season, including the playoffs was our lack of a running attack. Just don't see how the addition of a pass catching rookie TE will help us in that.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  5. #25

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    Fleener is a Travis Beckum wannabe?

    Excuse me while I spilled my soda, WHAT?

    Each and everyday I keep reading more wrong and wrong things about Fleener more than any other prospect

    Fleener comes with some flaws (but nothing that can't be corrected) but the whole h-back/can't block thing is the most ridiculous and frustrating criticism to read. Don't go by what you hear, but what by you see (or i think that how it goes) watch fleener. Dont go by his reputation

  6. #26
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)



    [quote user="Neverend"]Fleener is a Travis Beckum wannabe? Excuse me while I spilled my soda, WHAT? Each and everyday I keep reading more wrong and wrong things about Fleener more than any other prospect Fleener comes with some flaws (but nothing that can't be corrected) but the whole h-back/can't block thing is the most ridiculous and frustrating criticism to read. Don't go by what you hear, but what by you see (or i think that how it goes) watch fleener. Dont go by his reputation[/quote]




    Probably wasn't my best moment as a poster. So I will respectfully take that one back.




    But my points about our offense and its needs are listed clearly.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  7. #27

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="michaelkhan3"]I was watching Sports Science the draft edition and they had Fleener burst off the line while tied to 2 Sumo wrestlers, he was so powerful and quick of the line that he pulled both of them (combined weight of over 600lbs) of their feet. He definitely has the power to blockhe just needs to be thought some technique
    [/quote]

    That's one of the most underrated aspects of his game. Some feel Fleener isn't explosive off the line or is a long strider, but a huge part of his game is setting people up. So at times he kind of slow plays his strides, doesn't run with much agility, and then makes a cut at full speed. Its kind of like Justin Tuck. A huge part of Tuck's game is setting up the tackle so at times it looks like he isn't exploding off the line or giving much effort pass rushing but that isn't the case

    When Fleener wants too, there are plenty of catches he made when exploding off the line and running at full speed

  8. #28

    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Morehead State"]

    [quote user="Neverend"]Fleener is a Travis Beckum wannabe? Excuse me while I spilled my soda, WHAT? Each and everyday I keep reading more wrong and wrong things about Fleener more than any other prospect Fleener comes with some flaws (but nothing that can't be corrected) but the whole h-back/can't block thing is the most ridiculous and frustrating criticism to read. Don't go by what you hear, but what by you see (or i think that how it goes) watch fleener. Dont go by his reputation[/quote]




    Probably wasn't my best moment as a poster.* So I will respectfully take that one back.




    But my points about our offense and its needs are listed clearly.

    [/quote]

    I don't blame you at all. Some guys just have a reputation attached to their names so it gives people a wrong outlook about them. Fleener is one of those guys. If people didn't know much about him they'd probably think hes a terrible blocker but in reality he's a really solid blocker. He just needs to get stronger

  9. #29
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="Neverend"][quote user="Morehead State"]


    [quote user="Neverend"]Fleener is a Travis Beckum wannabe? Excuse me while I spilled my soda, WHAT? Each and everyday I keep reading more wrong and wrong things about Fleener more than any other prospect Fleener comes with some flaws (but nothing that can't be corrected) but the whole h-back/can't block thing is the most ridiculous and frustrating criticism to read. Don't go by what you hear, but what by you see (or i think that how it goes) watch fleener. Dont go by his reputation[/quote]




    Probably wasn't my best moment as a poster. So I will respectfully take that one back.




    But my points about our offense and its needs are listed clearly.




    [/quote] I don't blame you at all. Some guys just have a reputation attached to their names so it gives people a wrong outlook about them. Fleener is one of those guys. If people didn't know much about him they'd probably think hes a terrible blocker but in reality he's a really solid blocker. He just needs to get stronger[/quote]




    My aversion to Fleener has far less to do with him thanit does about us.




    I want a guy at TE who is going to help us in the running game. Thats just me. As I said, to me the main reason Eli was hit so much last year was a lack of a running game. Now BJ is gone and we have a #1 RB with a huge history of injuries, we also have a big question mark at LT. I just think we need to address this in a meaningful way. And I think there will be great value at RB at 32.

    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  10. #30
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    Re: PFW Beat Writers Mock (4/24)

    [quote user="G-Men Surg."][quote user="GMENAGAIN"]




    http://cache.profootballweekly.com/2...nts-mock-draft




    Interesting, since all of the picks are made by the teams' beat writers . . . . . except that Paul Schwartz made the Giants pick (Fleener), whichprobably assures that we will not take Fleener. The guy is an idiot.

    [/quote]
    LOL![/quote]

    Whoever decided that beat writers should do a mock is absurd. Beat writers, by trade, aren't college scouts. . .they just supposedly know their team "needs".

    I like Schwartz, just don't trust his college scouting abilities.
    We need our coaches to assign playing time based on something other than player salary.

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