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Thread: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

  1. #31

    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    [quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="juice33s"]>You act like guard was such a problem for us (not just this thread either) when it was clearly Beatty who was slowing down the run game. He leaves with an injury and all of a sudden our running game turns around for the better for the rest of the season....coincidence, I think not[/quote]

    I think getting Diehl out of LG was far more important than Beatty leaving. Diehl was the worst LG I have ever seen. And then Baas and Snee were injured on top of it and McKenzie just broke down[/quote]Agreed.[/quote]

    me too.

    and where are you guys getting that he can't run block from? maybe i just have martin pegged wrong but tbh, i feel i am correct on him bc of mayocks analysis...he's one of the few guys i do trust with player analysis.

    Martin could absolutely be a LT, but if we take him he'll be our starting RT day one...

    i think u guys are severely diminishing martins ability bc he lined up next to decastro...Martin was a huge reason Luck had the success he did, he kept Luck upright and i cant remember ONE blindside hit Luck took in college...

    but i dunno im getting really excited about this draft. we could go in so many directions...WR/TE/OL/DT/DE...

    i just pray that whoever we take rd 1, that a guy like randle, l.miller, d.wilson, a.jeffery falls to us.

    my dream scenario is Fleener/Wright rd 1, then Randle/L.Miller rd 2, OL or DL rd. 3 and then whatever is the BPA....

    edit-Juice, our run game didnt suddenly get awesome when DD went to LT, our run game still struggled pretty badly up until the final week of the reg. season...it wasn't even more than avg in the playoffs either...eli and the pass game carried the offense to the point teams were conceding the run to defend the pass...

    and ur opinion would make more sense to me if we were a team that liked to run off teh edge...we were primarily an up the middle run team. and beatty actually showed alot of athleticsm in the run block, i can remember quite a few plays where he sealed off his defender and then took off upfield to get another block...

  2. #32
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    [quote user="juice33s"]Giants run game was just fine when Baas went out of the lineup and it was just fine when he came back sanz Beatty. The LG position isn't what was slowing down the Giants rushing attack, it was having a LT who couldn't run block making them to one dimensional/predictable
    [/quote]

    Lets look at how effective the giants were in running the ball in each direction the past couple seasons and see if Beatty is the problem, ok?

    For reference, Left end means outside the tackle, Left tackle means bewteen LT & LG, mid/guard is bewteen guards and center. This is from the official NFL game books they do every week, this is regular season only.


    This season -
    Left End - 4.03 ypc
    Left Tackle - 3.76 ypc
    mid/guard - 3.94 ypc
    right tackle - 3.50 ypc
    right end - 3.74 ypc

    2010
    LE - 3.44 ypc
    LT - 4.31 ypc
    mid/guard - 4.48
    RT - 4.39
    RE - 3.89

    2009
    LE - 4.11
    LT - 4.04
    mid - 4.04
    RT - 4.56
    RE - 4.19

    So lets review. This season was actually a significant improvement running off the left tackle than last year. Diehl for the record, played 10 games in 2010 at LT, and 2 at LG. This year Beatty played 10 games at LT.

    Running behind the LG+LT was way down, running behind the G+C was way down. Biggest decrease was running behind the RG+RT (a full yard), and running off RT has consistently fallen off.

    Now you show in there what evidence you have that Beatty was at fault. Are you suggesting that Beatty was so bad at run blocking that the defenses loaded up on the right side? That wouldnt explain the drop off running right the past 3 seasons.

    Perhaps you are suggesting that Beatty is at fault for the LT+LG runs? Is Beatty also the one to blame for the mid runs dropping as substantially as the LT+LG runs?

    Perhaps even more telling, Giants HB success once they got past the first level.

    2010 - 2nd level yards - 4th in the league
    open field yards - 3rd in the league

    2011
    2nd level yards - 29th
    open field yards - 29th

    So Beatty also did not run the ball nearly as well as Diehl? Is perhaps the argument?

    Or is it far far more likely that the running game was better with a better 2nd level and open field runner in Bradshaw? Who had 100 more carries in 2010 than he did in 2011, and perhaps was also healthier that season?


    In summary the interior running game was nowhere near as good as it has been last year. LG+C+RG all did not play well. The right side of the line had the biggest drop off, and McKenzie was in decline the past 3 or so seasons in terms of run blocking. The giants as a team have had far more success over the years running to the right side, particularly behind the RG+RT.

    Running outside the LT was actually a strength of last season, so I will put Beatty down for most of that, seeing as Beatty started 10 games, and Diehl started 6.

  3. #33

    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    [quote user="giantsfan420"][quote user="gmen0820"][quote user="slipknottin"][quote user="juice33s"]>You act like guard was such a problem for us (not just this thread either) when it was clearly Beatty who was slowing down the run game. He leaves with an injury and all of a sudden our running game turns around for the better for the rest of the season....coincidence, I think not[/quote]

    I think getting Diehl out of LG was far more important than Beatty leaving. Diehl was the worst LG I have ever seen. And then Baas and Snee were injured on top of it and McKenzie just broke down[/quote]Agreed.[/quote]

    me too.

    and where are you guys getting that he can't run block from? maybe i just have martin pegged wrong but tbh, i feel i am correct on him bc of mayocks analysis...he's one of the few guys i do trust with player analysis.

    Martin could absolutely be a LT, but if we take him he'll be our starting RT day one...

    i think u guys are severely diminishing martins ability bc he lined up next to decastro...Martin was a huge reason Luck had the success he did, he kept Luck upright and i cant remember ONE blindside hit Luck took in college...

    but i dunno im getting really excited about this draft. we could go in so many directions...WR/TE/OL/DT/DE...

    i just pray that whoever we take rd 1, that a guy like randle, l.miller, d.wilson, a.jeffery falls to us.

    my dream scenario is Fleener/Wright rd 1, then Randle/L.Miller rd 2, OL or DL rd. 3 and then whatever is the BPA....

    edit-Juice, our run game didnt suddenly get awesome when DD went to LT, our run game still struggled pretty badly up until the final week of the reg. season...it wasn't even more than avg in the playoffs either...eli and the pass game carried the offense to the point teams were conceding the run to defend the pass...

    and ur opinion would make more sense to me if we were a team that liked to run off teh edge...we were primarily an up the middle run team. and beatty actually showed alot of athleticsm in the run block, i can remember quite a few plays where he sealed off his defender and then took off upfield to get another block...[/quote]
    DP









  4. #34

    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    Disgard last post let me try that again:

    Let me break it down for you:
    Beatty in line up
    10 games- 263 att 832yds 3.16 avg

    With out Beatty
    10 games- 260 att 1061yds 4.1 avg


    We're
    talking about a team who has had a top ten rushing offense for close to
    a decade (#6 in 2010), yet with beatty in the lineup they drop to dead
    last only to show signs of their old selves once he exits the lineup and
    you guys think that LG is to blame?

  5. #35
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    [quote user="juice33s"]We're
    talking about a team who has had a top ten rushing offense for close to
    a decade (#6 in 2010), yet with beatty in the lineup they drop to dead
    last only to show signs of their old selves once he exits the lineup and
    you guys think that LG is to blame?
    [/quote]

    Your stats do not support your argument. Sorry.


    I broke it down by exactly where the giants struggled and where they did well. Overall running numbers are meaningless if we are trying to single out an individual member.

  6. #36

    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...



    [quote user="Shockeyitus"]not sold on Martin... DeCastro was such a beast in college that it made Martin look good. Pass![/quote]




    Agree DeCastro made others around him look better. DeCastro will be an All-pro for years to come


  7. #37

    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    did u see slips post? u just proved our point...outside the LT was the best ypc running the ball.

    the interior WAS A DISASTER...also, DD was THE WORST RANKED OL AT BOTH T AND G...

    beatty doesnt get near the respect he should. he held his own vs opponents best pass rusher, and did a good job run blocking. plus he was way more athletic than DD in getting to the second level, i remember quite a few plays where i couldnt believe beatty was as quick as he showed, he was getting the block on the de, sealing him off forcing him inside, and then he'd take off and get in front of the rb to make another block.

    he made one amazing block too i forget vs who but he was able to make the initial block, swing out wide, then cut blocked a defender coming in free and completely opened up a huge alley.
    and dont forget this was his first year starting.

    i dislike how he has been hurt quite a bit tho...

  8. #38
    All-Pro JJC7301's Avatar
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    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    [quote user="slipknottin"]Thing that concerns me with Martin is the same as with beatty, if he isnt a great pass protector, can either move to RT and be a good run blocker? Im not convinced. Im not real sure OT is that much of a need anyway, Beatty I would assume is the starting LT, and there is a three way battle for RT with Diehl, Locklear and Brewer. Guard I would argue is more of a need, where Snee has not played as well, and Im not convinced that either Boothe or Petrus are quality starters.[/quote]
    I'm not enthralled with Martin in the 1st round. I'll take the RB Doug Martin, but not Jon Martin.

  9. #39

    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    [quote user="JJC7301"][quote user="slipknottin"]Thing that concerns me with Martin is the same as with beatty, if he isnt a great pass protector, can either move to RT and be a good run blocker? Im not convinced. Im not real sure OT is that much of a need anyway, Beatty I would assume is the starting LT, and there is a three way battle for RT with Diehl, Locklear and Brewer. Guard I would argue is more of a need, where Snee has not played as well, and Im not convinced that either Boothe or Petrus are quality starters.[/quote]
    I'm not enthralled with Martin in the 1st round. I'll take the RB Doug Martin, but not Jon Martin.[/quote]

    doug martin aint gonna do much if we dont have a good line to block for him...

    for me, in order of what id likebased on who will be available around our pick)
    wright
    fleener
    randle
    chandler jones
    john martin
    nick perry (he can rush off the edge, so if we trade osi, i'd want him and then spend the 2nd on whoever is still left in order of this)
    doug martin

  10. #40
    All-Pro JJC7301's Avatar
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    Re: Mayocks Mock has us taking...

    [quote user="giantsfan420"][quote user="JJC7301"][quote user="slipknottin"]Thing that concerns me with Martin is the same as with beatty, if he isnt a great pass protector, can either move to RT and be a good run blocker? Im not convinced. Im not real sure OT is that much of a need anyway, Beatty I would assume is the starting LT, and there is a three way battle for RT with Diehl, Locklear and Brewer. Guard I would argue is more of a need, where Snee has not played as well, and Im not convinced that either Boothe or Petrus are quality starters.[/quote]
    I'm not enthralled with Martin in the 1st round. I'll take the RB Doug Martin, but not Jon Martin.[/quote]

    doug martin aint gonna do much if we dont have a good line to block for him...

    for me, in order of what id likebased on who will be available around our pick)
    wright
    fleener
    randle
    chandler jones
    john martin
    nick perry (he can rush off the edge, so if we trade osi, i'd want him and then spend the 2nd on whoever is still left in order of this)
    doug martin[/quote]
    In my mind Doug Martin is the BPA available at # 32.

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