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Thread: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

  1. #41

    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    Playing with the lead, that's a nice luxary, how about when you don't have the lead and only 2 minutes left and you win the game, that's impressive.
    Forget the Past, Live for the Future!

  2. #42

    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    Ntegrase96, its really a WIN-WIN situation. You are happy Tony is your QB. And we are happy about it too. Hope he remains at your helm for a very long time.

  3. #43
    Veteran Ntegrase96's Avatar
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    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    True. Don't get me wrong, there are other qbs that I'd take over romo, and I agree that Eli is a better QB at this point-- but romo is our QB and I'll defend... Bash him amongst cowboys fans, but that's different because we've all seen every snap he's taken and know the guy can play and is a top 6-8 QB. But I'll defend him when the criticisms are outrageous.

  4. #44

    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    [quote user="Ntegrase96"]True. Don't get me wrong, there are other qbs that I'd take over romo, and I agree that Eli is a better QB at this point-- but romo is our QB and I'll defend... Bash him amongst cowboys fans, but that's different because we've all seen every snap he's taken and know the guy can play and is a top 6-8 QB. But I'll defend him when the criticisms are outrageous.[/quote]
    So where do the criticisms from boys fans fall? I mean is Romo getting blamed for your woes? Or Jerry? Garrett? Ryan? Or the whole team? Curious who the whipping boy is (if any).

  5. #45
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    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    [quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="wolfie"]

    I said this before, stats are just that, stats. Romo has an all-pro tight end who will one day be in the hall. Take Whitten out of the mix, and give Romo an average tight end like Eli has had and his stats will drop big-time. Having Whitten opens everything up for Romo, and if you don't think it does, you haven't been watching the same games I have. He's Romo's check down and probably leads the team in receptions every year. At least it seems that ways.</P>


    Anyway, put Whitten in his prime, on the Giants and Eli would have the almighty stats, and three rings by now.</P>[/quote]

    The legend of Eli continues to be inflated around here.

    Eli is a big reason why the Giants have won 2 superbowls, but he isn't the only one.

    Based on his production, and I mean production and not stats, he wasn't considered to be a top QB until 2009 when he stepped out of his 'bus driver' role.

    The team was on his shoulders and the Giants failed to make the playoffs the next 2 years.

    Look, I'm as impressed with Eli's performance last year as anyone. But let's not pretend Eli has been great for the majority of his career and only a few pieces away from more championships in past years.

    If anything, it was the defense that was lacking a few pieces.[/quote]

    The bigger point is that all we ever hear about it how talented a team Dallas is, so at what point is Romo just "bus driving" as you so elegantly put it?

    Most of us believe in Eli so much because he has shown progression throughout his career. Most people look at the stats and say it isn't even comparable when in reality Eli seems to be hitting his Prime and where as Romo has teetered around the same point. I don't think Romo is at fault for everything like some do but I do believe he is pretty overrated for someone who has supposedly had all the tools it always seems like there is just another excuse.

  6. #46

    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    To the Poop fan...

    Only stat I need to prove Eli is better is

    Eli- 2
    rHomo- 0

    Only stat I need.

    I could make the argument that Brady is the only QB better than Eli based on that... but in head to head,
    Eli- 2
    Brady- 0

    my rank of QB's

    1. Brady and Eli tied
    2. Roethlisberger
    3. Rodgers
    4. Peyton
    5. Brees
    ...
    Then there is a massive talent disparity between the next group of guys and they are essentially irrelevant.
    Guys with potential to make the elite list:
    Newton, Stafford (if he can stay healthy).

    Everyone else shouldn't even be in the same conversation as those guys. All of the other starting QB's in the league are backups on championship teams.

    Romo is much better at losing than Eli is.

  7. #47
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    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    [quote user="THE_New_York_Giants"]To the Poop fan...

    Only stat I need to prove Eli is better is

    Eli- 2
    rHomo- 0

    Only stat I need.

    I could make the argument that Brady is the only QB better than Eli based on that... but in head to head,
    Eli- 2
    Brady- 0

    my rank of QB's

    1. Brady and Eli tied
    2. Roethlisberger
    3. Rodgers
    4. Peyton
    5. Brees
    ...
    Then there is a massive talent disparity between the next group of guys and they are essentially irrelevant.*
    Guys with potential to make the elite list:
    Newton, Stafford (if he can stay healthy).

    Everyone else shouldn't even be in the same conversation as those guys.* All of the other starting QB's in the league are backups on championship teams.

    Romo is much better at losing than Eli is.
    [/quote]

    Ha, in my opinion, your list is terrible.

  8. #48

    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    [quote user="TuckYou"][quote user="THE_New_York_Giants"]To the Poop fan...

    Only stat I need to prove Eli is better is

    Eli- 2
    rHomo- 0

    Only stat I need.

    I could make the argument that Brady is the only QB better than Eli based on that... but in head to head,
    Eli- 2
    Brady- 0

    my rank of QB's

    1. Brady and Eli tied
    2. Roethlisberger
    3. Rodgers
    4. Peyton
    5. Brees
    ...
    Then there is a massive talent disparity between the next group of guys and they are essentially irrelevant.
    Guys with potential to make the elite list:
    Newton, Stafford (if he can stay healthy).

    Everyone else shouldn't even be in the same conversation as those guys. All of the other starting QB's in the league are backups on championship teams.

    Romo is much better at losing than Eli is.
    [/quote]

    Ha, in my opinion, your list is terrible.[/quote]
    that's fine man... at the end of the day I predict Eli will have the most rings out of all of them on the list.

    I'll add Flacco, Dalton, and Ryan to the list of potentials as well. Flacco is going to win a Superbowl. However, those 9 guys are the only guys in the NFL this season who have potential to win a Superbowl (or another) in their respective careers. The only unknowns are guys who were drafted this year. The other 20 starting QB's are backups on those 10 guys' teams AKA teams who will win Superbowls.


    The losers:
    Romo.... lol. I'd only put him on my team if I wanted to guarantee not winning important games. Watching him play I always feel it's safe to assume he won't go very far, and I am right about that. Danny White part II
    Vick... talented but is more fragile than a 90 year old with AIDS and every kind of cancer
    RG3... don't know
    Luck... don't know
    Locker... don't know
    Freeman... lol
    Schaub... injury prone and an interception waiting to happen when healthy
    Gabbert... BWAHAHAHAHAHA
    Ponder.. sucks
    Cutler... Anyone remember Jaworski?
    Palmer... BWAHAHAHAHAAHA
    Seattle's QBs... riiiiight..
    Alex Smith... Who?
    Tebow or Sanchez... Tebow can if Jesus is ready to do something more miraculous than water to wine.. Sanchez if everyone else in the league gets struck by a meteor with the exception of the Jags (he can beat them)
    Cassell... I'll pass
    Bradford.. He is worth maybe 1/100th of his contract on a good day
    McCoy... Not an NFL guy.
    Fitzpatrick... my favorite of the losers, may make a viable replacement for Carr behind Eli someday
    Rivers... His best shot was when Tomlinson was still great and he blew it. Now he has nobody to make him look better than he is.. and he is a loser.
    Miami.. lololololololol haven't had a QB since Marino left.

    The potentials:
    Dalton: much promise. He will win one someday.
    Stafford: If he can stay healthy he will give Rodgers a run for his money as best statistical QB in that division.. can that translate to playoff success?
    Flacco.. 4 playoff appearances and 2 AFC champ games in 4 years? this kid will win 1 or even 2 championships
    Ryan... Has great talent but has a young Eli problem of falling apart at the end of the season. If he can overcome that then he can be on the list of elites
    Newton... he is a freak of talent and it translated to some offensive success. This year I expect him to be a beast

    The Elites:
    Roethlisberger... 2 rings. Only stat I need
    Rodgers... 1 ring and a solid 24 game stretch in his career. However outside of those 24 games he was very very average. If he is great this year he is the best... however I think we will see some pre playoff run 2010 Rodgers this year as his obvious ****iness gets to his head. 1 ring
    Peyton... One of the best ever. As long as he plays he will be considered elite. 1 ring and did I mention that Peyton Manning was the Colts?
    Brees.. Probably the best stat padder ever (Marino was damn good at it) and good at winning... 1 ring. hey it works for him.
    Brady... 3 rings and 2 GIANT losses.. however, the 3 rings are the only argument I need.
    Eli AKA ELIte, Easy E, Big Easy... 2 rings, 18-1 Patriots, helmet catch, 25 come from behind victories. There is only one person in NFL history I would take over Eli if my team was down with under 2 minutes left and we needed a touchdown and that is Joe Montana. Eli is the second most clutch QB ever.

    You can't go wrong with any of the elites as your starter with the exception of Brees if you aren't running a pass happy, stat padding offense. Brees would be terrible on cold weather teams. The losers will never win.

  9. #49

    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    [quote user="TuckYou"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="TuckYou"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="wolfie"]


    I said this before, stats are just that, stats. Romo has an all-pro tight end who will one day be in the hall. Take Whitten out of the mix, and give Romo an average tight end like Eli has had and his stats will drop big-time. Having Whitten opens everything up for Romo, and if you don't think it does, you haven't been watching the same games I have. He's Romo's check down and probably leads the team in receptions every year. At least it seems that ways.</P>


    Anyway, put Whitten in his prime, on the Giants and Eli would have the almighty stats, and three rings by now.</P>


    [/quote] The legend of Eli continues to be inflated around here. Eli is a big reason why the Giants have won 2 superbowls, but he isn't the only one. Based on his production, and I mean production and not stats, he wasn't considered to be a top QB until 2009 when he stepped out of his 'bus driver' role. The team was on his shoulders and the Giants failed to make the playoffs the next 2 years. Look, I'm as impressed with Eli's performance last year as anyone.[/quote]</P>


    So when the Giants are doing well it sthe defense, but when they arent it is Eli's fault? Uh, Eli carried this team more then ever last season. The defense gave up 400 points, the running game was last in the league, we didnt have any real TE, our Oline was crap.... Did you see what Eli did in the playoffs*in 2007-08? Here let me get it for you, 854 yards, 6 TDs, 1INT (Steve Smith drop in Superbowl at 5 yard line). Or how about 2011's playoffs? NFL record 1,219 yards, 9 TDs and 1 INT. Eli carried this team 2x in the playoffs (even though in 2007 the defense was spectacular), and came away with 2 championships. Now, no QB can win it all himself. Tom Brady's SB record is completely exaggerated. The MVP was the kicker. 3 SBs won by a FG everytime. Dont forget about that Tuck Rule that got the ball rolling. See, things like that can make or break a QBs reputation and it really doesnt have much to do with that QB. </P>


    Saying the team was on his shoulders and the team failed to make the playoffs because of it is ridiculous. </P>


    Eli also had to deal with some HUGE egos in NY when he was young and developing which stunted his growth IMO. Tiki? Shockey? Funny when those guys left, Eli flourished, isnt it?</P>


    [/quote] I'm not throwing the age old argument out there that Eli wasn't the reason that the Giants won the first superbowl. He was a BIG part of that. I'm not giving the defense credit, nor am I taking any credit away from Eli's season last year and post season performances. I AM saying that adding a Jason Witten type player wouldn't have pushed Eli into the uper echelon of quarterbacks sooner and propelled the Giants to more super bowls. Here's how I see it: -Eli was down right awful up until the 2007 playoffs-- but he played a nice bus driver role and this is about the time he solidified himself as 'clutch'-- although there were hints of that early in his career (and hints to the contrary as well). -2008 the run game and defense carried the team until Plaxico Burress shot himself and then teams started stacking the box. The Eagles dared Eli to beat them with his arm and how did he respond? 15/29 169 5.8 0 2 -2009 is when Eli came on and the Giants were solely on his shoulders. But the defense under Sherridan was horrendous. He put up a lot of yard, but a lot of turnovers as well-- 2010 was a similar story as well. -2011-- He played great and was a big proponent to the Giants superbowl championship. My contention is that an all pro tight end wouldn't have helped him much in his early career since he was awful... Wouldn't have helped him against Philadelphia in the playoffs. And he needed more defense, not Jason Witten, to make te playoffs in 2009 and 2010. More weapons would have helped Eli, but I contend that the Giants weren't truly "Eli's team" until 2009 and it wasn't until last year that Eli's skills developed to where he could be one of those QBs that can just outscore the majority of others.[/quote]</P>


    So basically, what you are saying is Eli went through a natural progression of a QB in the NFL, going from awful to elite in 8 years. Thats what the great QBs do. They dont all start out great and elite. Natural progression. And obviously the team wasnt Eli's Team until 2009ish. He was still a young QB developing and growing. I think Eli changed into the Eli of now as soon as the Vets around him started to get younger then himself. When he first arrived, everyone wanted to keep Warner at QB and were like, look at this kid. He sucks. He didnt have control. 07 he stepped up, but you are right, it wasnt till after that, after Tiki, after Plax, after Toomer, after Strahan, that he became the leader and elite QB*he is now. </P>


    <SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">And if he progressed from awful to elite in 8 years, where does he go in the next 5-6 years? He seems to be only getting better. He won a superbowl with Toomer, Smith, Plax and Boss, and then with Nicks, Cruz, Manningham and Ballard. Completely new cast of players. </FONT></SPAN></P>


    <SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">A lot of your other points are bogus too. What QB makes the playoffs every single year anyway? Or wins every playoff game he ever played. Of course Eli has his bad games. Doesnt mean his skill level was low or something. That Eagles playoff game, the wind was whipping like crazy and Eli doesnt have the arm to rip through the crossing Meadowland winds at times. It happens. What would be amazing is if Eli played in a dome like Romo. His numbers would be through the roof.</FONT></SPAN></P>


    <SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Take Drew Brees as an example. He is way better in the superdome then outside it. </FONT></SPAN></P>[/quote]

    Absolutely 100% this.

    #80

  10. #50

    Re: The Things ROMO is better at then ELI

    [quote user="Ntegrase96"]True. Don't get me wrong, there are other qbs that I'd take over romo, and I agree that Eli is a better QB at this point-- but romo is our QB and I'll defend... Bash him amongst cowboys fans, but that's different because we've all seen every snap he's taken and know the guy can play and is a top 6-8 QB. But I'll defend him when the criticisms are outrageous.[/quote]

    I think that, at this point, Romo is better than Eli at improvising, but that Eli is closing the gap on that, as evidenced by his play this past year, specifically in the playoffs. Eli has also gotten much better at going thru his progressions.

    Both players play hurt. Both take hits to make plays.

    I will say this for Romo, while he still hasn't demonstrated an avoidance for making very unclutch plays in huge situations, he has played well, by the numbers, in the 4th quarter of games. It's just that he makes that one play that, at this time, the fans, media and players, have almost come to expect. That expectation will continue until he can put a ring on his finger.

    But in Romo's defense, he has played his whole career on a dysfunctional, albeit talented, team. Case in point, when I watched the Jet - Cowboy game and Romo threw that int to Revis and, to his credit, took all of the blame, I felt it was also on Dez Bryant. More to the point, i felt Dez Bryant quit on the play, or simply had the wrong sight adjustment or ran the wrong route. But, to Romo's credit, he took the responsibility.

    While Eli had to deal with Burress, Barber and Shockey's nonsense early on in his career, it seems that Romo has been dealing with that stuff throughout his entire career.

    Eli's team is much more disciplined, or let's just say, better coached, and that pays huge dividends in big spots of big games. Maybe under Garrett it will change, but the JJones circus factor is still a predominating overtone.

    Jones loves "opera singers" (me, me, me, me) and that is his team's ultimate undoing. He tends to draft or sign, what he thinks are just big play guys but are also big headache guys (Owens, Pacman, Bryant, etc.).
    #80

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