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  1. #21
    Veteran Ntegrase96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnalyst View Post
    Can't wait to see Bennett play TE for us. Cowboys fans are going to be like "Where was this guy in Dallas?!". Answer, stuck behind Jason Witten and un motivated. He is highly motivated right now. Perfect for a 1 year contract.
    I agree it's a good pick up for the contract, but stuck behind Jason Witten? I guess he was stuck behind John Phillips also...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeandBake View Post
    I was referencing last year as far as playoffs were concerned, which you dismissed as irrelevant in concerning this year's discussion. Then you go ahead and bring up the passed 6 years to try to argue the same thing, makes PERFECT SENSE. Weren't you trying to argue that there was a flaw in my logic?

    Yeah because you were trying to argue that we have been even the passed six years(even though you argued that last year is irrelevant, so why would years beyond that be relevant?) I brought up the playoff wins to further emphasize how irrelevant you guys are, same amount of opportunities within those 6 years for both teams, yet the Giants have capitalized where Dallas has failed.
    Okay, I'll try this one more time... This is your quote that I responded to. I've copied and pasted it so that you can see it without having to go back through this exchange.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeandBake View Post
    ...My initial point was that every season we hear that the Cowboys are new and improved, loaded with talent, yet you guys never yield any results, so you guys do not deserve to be favored to win the division. If you guys have all of this talent and comradery then you should be consistently at the top of the division, which is not the case.
    See it? Here, I'll narrow it down...

    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeandBake View Post
    ...so you guys do not deserve to be favored to win the division...
    I responded to the idea that the Cowboys 'don't deserve to be favored to win the the division', which is just asinine when you consider that the division is typically up for grabs, as illustrated by DAL, NYG, PHI all having 2 divisional titles under their belts in the last 6 years-- this number isn't arbitrary. And that's it.

    I did not bring up playoffs at all, and I do not dispute that the Giants have had more success than the Cowboys in the post season. I did, however, criticize the idea that a traditionally strong post season team translates into a division title winner. It doesn't. Just like the poor effort the Cowboys have displayed in the post season hasn't affected their ability to win the NFCE-- as you implied (I'll post your quote again, if you'd like).

    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeandBake View Post
    I'll have to disagree with you here, but then again I have the benefit of following the Giants in depth . Again let me reiterate that last year was one of the most injury riddled teams I have ever seen, definitely comparable to what the Packers had to deal with the season prior. Anyway it seems like we are going in circles here, but let me just say again that you are not poking holes in my logic, logic would dictate that in order to beat out the team who won the division last year(and the superbowl) you would have to improve enough to do so which you have not. We are better than we were last year, while the only significant moves your team has made was upgrading your secondary from complete garbage, to potentially being decent. Definitely not enough to assume that you guys will take the NFC crown this year.
    What exactly are you disagreeing with?

    You think I don't follow the Giants in depth? You think that in the four years I've been a member of these boards that I haven't read through the majority of the posts? Not just here in the Smack Talk section-- but in TAGF. In your draft section. Gerneral sports section.

    I've followed them in depth enough to know that the injuries you all sustained weren't nearly as bad as you want them to seem. Yeah a few guys went out for the year, and TT was probably the biggest hit you all had. But a lot of the guys hadn't played a down with your team or were depth players. Not only that, the injuries to your WR core helped bring about a very valuable player with Victor Cruz. Osi was banged up and so was Tuck at times, but you never really lost any valuable player for long stretches. And at the end of the season you got healthy. So just stop with the injuries-- you'll endure them again this season, the Giants ALWAYS do.

    And I won't bore you with the moves that we've made this offseason, but strengthening the secondary was far from the only move we made.

  3. #23
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    Before you reply again ShakeandBake, I want to point out that I understand what you're talking about.

    You see your team as a superbowl winning team that is going to put it all together next year, and the Cowboys are a team that were bad and will be bad again this year because they did not make significant upgrades.

    If that's something you want to discuss, that's fine.

  4. #24
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    I responded to the idea that the Cowboys 'don't deserve to be favored to win the the division', which is just asinine when you consider that the division is typically up for grabs, as illustrated by DAL, NYG, PHI all having 2 divisional titles under their belts in the last 6 years-- this number isn't arbitrary. And that's it.

    I did not bring up playoffs at all, and I do not dispute that the Giants have had more success than the Cowboys in the post season. I did, however, criticize the idea that a traditionally strong post season team translates into a division title winner. It doesn't. Just like the poor effort the Cowboys have displayed in the post season hasn't affected their ability to win the NFCE-- as you implied (I'll post your quote again, if you'd like).
    How is it an asinine? My argument has been that we should be favored to win the division based on the fact that we won it last year and have virtually the same team if not better considering how banged up we were, while you guys finished a game behind us. You then dismiss that by saying last year didn't matter, and then try to argue that by saying that over the last six years the division winners have been split 3-ways(this doesn't make sense unless you are willing to accept that last year is relevant). I didn't imply that because you guys haven't been successfull in the post season that means you will not win the NFCE, I was implying that we have the better team, which furthers my argument that our chances will be better than yours this year because that team is still intact. We have a better team than you guys do, and nothing you guys did this off-season tells me otherwise.



    What exactly are you disagreeing with?

    You think I don't follow the Giants in depth? You think that in the four years I've been a member of these boards that I haven't read through the majority of the posts? Not just here in the Smack Talk section-- but in TAGF. In your draft section. Gerneral sports section.


    I've followed them in depth enough to know that the injuries you all sustained weren't nearly as bad as you want them to seem. Yeah a few guys went out for the year, and TT was probably the biggest hit you all had. But a lot of the guys hadn't played a down with your team or were depth players. Not only that, the injuries to your WR core helped bring about a very valuable player with Victor Cruz. Osi was banged up and so was Tuck at times, but you never really lost any valuable player for long stretches. And at the end of the season you got healthy. So just stop with the injuries-- you'll endure them again this season, the Giants ALWAYS do.

    And I won't bore you with the moves that we've made this offseason, but strengthening the secondary was far from the only move we made.
    I was mocking you, you said this same thing to me earlier in the thread in regards to the Cowturds. You clearly do not follow them otherwise you would understand how significant our injuries were last year, we were hurt all over the place, our only consistently healthy positions were the WR and QB. I know who you are, and you should know who I am since I have been around here awhile too, but hey lets assume I don't know anything because this is a new username and my post count is low.

    Here let me give you a good example: you said that we never really lost any valuable player for a stretch, but you're absolutely wrong. We lost our starting corner(TT), our starting MLB(Goff), Osi for 8 games, Prince for 8 games, Tuck was banged up all season and missed games as well. We lost our starting left tackle for the season, Snee was out for a few games as well. Those are the "valuable" players that we never lost, not including the depth that we lost such as the 5? 6? corner backs, two return men, and so on and so forth. The only positions we were healthy at were WR and QB. I guess those guys aren't important though, or at least not in your expert opinion.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeandBake View Post
    How is it an asinine? My argument has been that we should be favored to win the division based on the fact that we won it last year and have virtually the same team if not better considering how banged up we were, while you guys finished a game behind us. You then dismiss that by saying last year didn't matter, and then try to argue that by saying that over the last six years the division winners have been split 3-ways(this doesn't make sense unless you are willing to accept that last year is relevant). I didn't imply that because you guys haven't been successfull in the post season that means you will not win the NFCE, I was implying that we have the better team, which furthers my argument that our chances will be better than yours this year because that team is still intact. We have a better team than you guys do, and nothing you guys did this off-season tells me otherwise.
    Yeah I changed my position a bit above. As you said we were going in circles, pretty much not talking about the same thing. So slate clean, start over from here--

    That's a fair assesment that you feel you have a better team. I just don't think that the Giants are overwhelmingly better than either the Cowboys, nor Eagles.

    However, you seem to be dismissing most of the moves the Cowboys have made this offseason outside of getting a top 10 corner and drafting the best corner prospect, unless you just aren't aware of the changes made.


    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeandBake View Post


    I was mocking you, you said this same thing to me earlier in the thread in regards to the Cowturds. You clearly do not follow them otherwise you would understand how significant our injuries were last year, we were hurt all over the place, our only consistently healthy positions were the WR and QB. I know who you are, and you should know who I am since I have been around here awhile too, but hey lets assume I don't know anything because this is a new username and my post count is low.

    Here let me give you a good example: you said that we never really lost any valuable player for a stretch, but you're absolutely wrong. We lost our starting corner(TT), our starting MLB(Goff), Osi for 8 games, Prince for 8 games, Tuck was banged up all season and missed games as well. We lost our starting left tackle for the season, Snee was out for a few games as well. Those are the "valuable" players that we never lost, not including the depth that we lost such as the 5? 6? corner backs, two return men, and so on and so forth. The only positions we were healthy at were WR and QB. I guess those guys aren't important though, or at least not in your expert opinion.
    Right, I know who you are. ShakeNBake. I figured that since many other posters here had trouble with the transition. I made mention of the TT injury and the depth behind him. Admittedly, the Osi injury slipped my mind. That was a big one.

    But how is that different than missing your number 1 WR for 6 games (and then never being fully healthy), not having any of your 3 starting RBs to end the season, both starting guards, center at times, FB for weeks, QB with broken ribs for the fist half of the season, Safety out, backup NT out the last 5 games of the season, best DE out for a three game stretch, etc...?

    Teams get injured. And while you have depth coming back from injuries so do we. Yes, we finished one game worse in terms of the fighting for the division crown. Is that really large enough discrepeny to say that the Cowboys don't deserve to be considered the favorites?

    I personally think the favorites should be the Eagles, but really I can make arguments for all three teams.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnalyst View Post
    Can't wait to see Bennett play TE for us. Cowboys fans are going to be like "Where was this guy in Dallas?!". Answer, stuck behind Jason Witten and un motivated. He is highly motivated right now. Perfect for a 1 year contract.
    He was playing for a new deal last year too, right?

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ntegrase96 View Post
    Yeah I changed my position a bit above. As you said we were going in circles, pretty much not talking about the same thing. So slate clean, start over from here--

    That's a fair assesment that you feel you have a better team. I just don't think that the Giants are overwhelmingly better than either the Cowboys, nor Eagles.

    However, you seem to be dismissing most of the moves the Cowboys have made this offseason outside of getting a top 10 corner and drafting the best corner prospect, unless you just aren't aware of the changes made.
    You're right I definitely do not know as much as you do in regards to the off season moves Dallas made this year, I didn't hear about any big splashes outside of Cobb and the draft of course, so who else did you guys pickup that you think will crack your starting line-up? As I said earlier I think Cobb and Mo can help you guys down the line but I do not think they will have that much of an impact this season especially early on because of the lack of continuity your secondary has had as of late. Since these were the biggest moves you guys made this off season that I was aware of, I would assume that your team will not be that much better than you were last season.

    Then when you look at the Giants, we are much healthier than we were last season, and made some key pickups to fill in the gaps that we lost last year. The only aspect that I am concerned about is the offensive line. Anyway I think that we have the better chance at winning the division because I still believe that we have the overall better team, but winning the division is no guarantee especially considering how competitive it has been as of late as you pointed out earlier.


    Right, I know who you are. ShakeNBake. I figured that since many other posters here had trouble with the transition. I made mention of the TT injury and the depth behind him. Admittedly, the Osi injury slipped my mind. That was a big one.

    But how is that different than missing your number 1 WR for 6 games (and then never being fully healthy), not having any of your 3 starting RBs to end the season, both starting guards, center at times, FB for weeks, QB with broken ribs for the fist half of the season, Safety out, backup NT out the last 5 games of the season, best DE out for a three game stretch, etc...?

    Teams get injured. And while you have depth coming back from injuries so do we. Yes, we finished one game worse in terms of the fighting for the division crown. Is that really large enough discrepeny to say that the Cowboys don't deserve to be considered the favorites?

    I personally think the favorites should be the Eagles, but really I can make arguments for all three teams.
    I understand what you are saying about the injuries, and to be honest if the shoe was on the other foot I would dismiss those claims as well. The reason I believed that the amount of injuries we sustained last year was abnormal was because of an article that another poster on these boards posted awhile back, and we were ranked in the top 3 in this article, which also listed the 2010-2011 Packer team as well. I've been trying to dig this up but I can not find it, if anyone can find it and post it, many thanks.I personally have never seen a team so hampered by injuries, we were at the point where we were going to start picking corner backs off the street. Anyway I have been seeing most of the talking heads predict that Dallas or Philly will win the division, with the Giants getting no love as usual. I don't expect anyone to run away with the division, it has been tight as of late I just don't understand why the Giants are always treated as the Rodney Dangerfield of the NFC East.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=ShakeandBake;441436]

    You're right I definitely do not know as much as you do in regards to the off season moves Dallas made this year, I didn't hear about any big splashes outside of Cobb and the draft of course, so who else did you guys pickup that you think will crack your starting line-up? As I said earlier I think Cobb and Mo can help you guys down the line but I do not think they will have that much of an impact this season especially early on because of the lack of continuity your secondary has had as of late. Since these were the biggest moves you guys made this off season that I was aware of, I would assume that your team will not be that much better than you were last season.

    Then when you look at the Giants, we are much healthier than we were last season, and made some key pickups to fill in the gaps that we lost last year. The only aspect that I am concerned about is the offensive line. Anyway I think that we have the better chance at winning the division because I still believe that we have the overall better team, but winning the division is no guarantee especially considering how competitive it has been as of late as you pointed out earlier.




    I understand what you are saying about the injuries, and to be honest if the shoe was on the other foot I would dismiss those claims as well. The reason I believed that the amount of injuries we sustained last year was abnormal was because of an article that another poster on these boards posted awhile back, and we were ranked in the top 3 in this article, which also listed the 2010-2011 Packer team as well. I've been trying to dig this up but I can not find it, if anyone can find it and post it, many thanks.I personally have never seen a team so hampered by injuries, we were at the point where we were going to start picking corner backs off the street. Anyway I have been seeing most of the talking heads predict that Dallas or Philly will win the division, with the Giants getting no love as usual. I don't expect anyone to run away with the division, it has been tight as of late I just don't understand why the Giants are always treated as the Rodney Dangerfield of the NFC East.
    I think my confidence in this team stems from the old adage; you're only as good as your worst player. And last year our worst players were some of the worst in the league and destroyed any chances of our success.

    Those players have since been jettison from the team. Not only are there improvements, but the improvements are vast. Carr over Newman is one of the biggest position upgrades in FA this year. Dan Connor and Bruce Carter over Bradie James and Keith Brooking. Vickers over Fiametta. And if we need him, Orton>Kitna.

    And that goes for the coaches as well. Secondary Coach Dave Campo (idiot) is gone for one of the better secondary coaches in the league, Jerome Henderson. OL coach Hudson Houck (over the hill) is gone for Bill Callahan, one of the better OL coaches in the league (who will also be responsible for offensive game plans to help alleviate some of Garrett's duties so that Garrett himself can be a better HC.)

    There are just a lot of things falling into place for this team in year 2 of it's rebuild. We've got question marks still, but the team has taken strides to fill the holes last years team had, and now some are strengths-- like say the CB position that is now 4 deep.


    I myself haven't seen us favored by many, but then again I didn't expect to see that. Hell, while my expectations are high, I don't think this is 'our year' (save that for 2013). All I've heard is the Eagles talk, but in fairness I can't say that it's ridiculous. They have a tremendously talented roster and went 5-1 in the division last year.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntegrase96 View Post
    I agree it's a good pick up for the contract, but stuck behind Jason Witten? I guess he was stuck behind John Phillips also...
    your going to sit there and say he wasn't stuck behind Witten? Come on man you can't be that blind I know your excited about you team this year but you got problems at safety this year and you did nothing to fix that offensive line they are right the divison this year is between the Giants and the Eagles you guys are the over hyped team that is suppose to win every year but don't. they say you guys got better cause you got carr and claborne, which I think is ridiculous cause he's a rookie and we have a 1st round drafted corner Princ who will be better in his second year but yet you guys gett all the hype trust me giant fans know if there is one weak spot in your secondary then you will have some problems with the pass and carr play along side with flowers in K.C. so before you guys think he is the next Revis let's see how he does by himself and he also faced a lot of weak qb's in the AFC I think you guys are overvaluing Carr. you also said winning the SB means nothing this year it does when you bring back most of the team that won it and that won 6 straight at the end of the season. I know we were 9-7 but you were 8-8 also.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ntegrase96 View Post
    I've followed them in depth enough to know that the injuries you all sustained weren't nearly as bad as you want them to seem. Yeah a few guys went out for the year, and TT was probably the biggest hit you all had. But a lot of the guys hadn't played a down with your team or were depth players. Not only that, the injuries to your WR core helped bring about a very valuable player with Victor Cruz. Osi was banged up and so was Tuck at times, but you never really lost any valuable player for long stretches. And at the end of the season you got healthy. So just stop with the injuries-- you'll endure them again this season, the Giants ALWAYS do.
    I don't agree with this we lost our starting MLB and CB were lost. Like you began mentioning we really only had both Osi and Tuck healthy, or at least in Tuck's case playing better, late in the season. As well we lost both our 1st and 2nd round picks in camp to injury, Austin for the season, and with TT already out and Prince, who was the quality depth we added in case of major injury. After that sure you can dismiss our other injuries as just depth guys but after losing some starters and their quality backups our secondary was scary thin and one of many contributing factors to our mid-season losing streak. We did have WR injuries, though not major, but that isn't what opened up Cruz's spot he was getting a shot anyway after losing Smith and Boss,

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