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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverboat76 View Post
    Oh wait, so you're saying the Giants defense is a stout rushing defense? I guess those Cowboys and Eagles games didn't count against the Giants then.
    If Kiwi is doing his job and his teammates aren't who is to blame? Kiwi? Yeah I think not.
    Over 5500 posts, advanced member, joined March 2002. 1st post (as anonymous) was the day after Super Bowl 35

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince69 View Post
    I didn't say it was or it wasn't all I am saying that a stat on it's own means very little....you need ALL the stats
    Very true. Or we all just need a feel for the game. Like when you watch a game you just get a certain feel for how impactful a player really is.

    Some of us that watch ALOTTT of football, especially Giants football, will understand that Kiwanuka is no slouch, and he is important in stopping the run, as well as subbing in for the NASCAR and providing a fresh DL rotation.

    but hes no patrick willis

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by burier View Post
    lol top rated by who. PFF. lmao

    If he was so great against the run why did almost every team we faced run all over us last year. And where was he against the run sunday night?

    I swear if you make one play behind the line of scrimmage as a defender Giants fans will love you forever.
    Is it Kiwi's fault if he is in position to force the RB elsewhere and the guy Kiwi forces the RB to fails to make the run stop? Stopping the run is more than just making the tackle yourself, it is about positioning and hoping your teammates do their damn job if you do yours.
    Over 5500 posts, advanced member, joined March 2002. 1st post (as anonymous) was the day after Super Bowl 35

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by fansince69 View Post
    too many so called fans just look at the stats and make an assumption not really understanding the stat.....there are many stats that can be quoted to make almost any argument.....look at ALL the stats and watch how a player plays within the team concept ...that is how you judge
    Not talking specifically about Kiwi right now but...

    Stats can be used for evil but I mean..if someone is playing a position and isn't keeping up statistically with everyone else in the league at his position then theres a red flag.

    John Goff started 16 games 2010 and recorded 54 tackles. You can couch all this gap control stuff all you want. but Mike backers are supposed to have better tackle numbers than that in 16 games started.

    Stats aren't the end all be all but they are a tool.

    As far as Kiwi goes. I dont think anyone is saying he sucks but he's a first round pick who we kept beyond his rookie contract...I don't think we're getting our bang for our buck with him at the SAM.
    My 5 year old son right before the kickoff of the Super Bowl 46: Dad, are the Giants gonna win?

    Burier: Yes.

    My 5 year old son right before the kickoff of Super Bowl 46: Do you promise?

    Burier: Yes. I promise.

  5. #35
    I'm honestly not trolling here. I've probably watched 90% of the Giant games over the past 3 years. Kiwi never gets mentioned. He never causes a game-turning fumble or jump in front of that pass to the TE and take an interception the other way. I'm talking about the eye test here. But if you want to look at the stats too I think they support what I'm saying.

    Plus lets not suggest the Giants defense is some juggernaut. This isn't the 49ers or the Texans. I'd be right there with you if the Giants defense was great and Kiwi was just another cog in the machine...that would be fine. But it's not like that. He's an average player in an average defense.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by burier View Post
    Not talking specifically about Kiwi right now but...

    Stats can be used for evil but I mean..if someone is playing a position and isn't keeping up statistically with everyone else in the league at his position then theres a red flag.

    John Goff started 16 games 2010 and recorded 54 tackles. You can couch all this gap control stuff all you want. but Mike backers are supposed to have better tackle numbers than that in 16 games started.

    Stats aren't the end all be all but they are a tool.

    As far as Kiwi goes. I dont think anyone is saying he sucks but he's first round pick who we kept beyond his rookie contract...I don't think we're getting out bang for our buck with him at the SAM.
    I guess we agree to disagree....he is a solid player whose making a solid contract so I think he earns what he's paid.....he does HIS job
    "When I was 15, I could not believe how dumb my father was.....when I was 25, I could not believe how much he had learned in 10 years"

    1st to use the phrase "In Reese we trust"

  7. #37
    1 Takeo Spikes 2362 232 44 9 31.7
    2 Patrick Willis 2888 287 56 14 25.5
    3 Bradie James 2245 199 49 11 23.5
    3 Paul Posluszny 2758 273 64 15 23.5
    5 Michael Boley 2596 195 28 10 23.3
    6 James Laurinaitis 3254 299 47 16 22.6
    7 Kirk Morrison 1827 179 22 10 21.1
    8 Jerod Mayo 2716 245 59 16 20.0
    9 Thomas Howard 2017 146 16 9 19.0
    10 Stephen Nicholas 1636 132 21 9 18.0
    11 D.J. Williams 3060 267 37 20 16.2
    12 Desmond Bishop 1624 179 33 14 16.1
    13 Mathias Kiwanuka 1788 113 20 9 15.8
    14 Keith Brooking 2116 185 34 15 15.6
    15 D'Qwell Jackson 1483 165 18 13 15

    He was 13 in nfl in tackling efficiency

    sorry headins did't come.....they are snaps....tackles...assists and missed tackles and pct
    Last edited by fansince69; 10-02-2012 at 04:13 PM.
    "When I was 15, I could not believe how dumb my father was.....when I was 25, I could not believe how much he had learned in 10 years"

    1st to use the phrase "In Reese we trust"

  8. #38
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    He is one of the best run stuffing LBs in the league.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince69 View Post
    1 Takeo Spikes 2362 232 44 9 31.7
    2 Patrick Willis 2888 287 56 14 25.5
    3 Bradie James 2245 199 49 11 23.5
    3 Paul Posluszny 2758 273 64 15 23.5
    5 Michael Boley 2596 195 28 10 23.3
    6 James Laurinaitis 3254 299 47 16 22.6
    7 Kirk Morrison 1827 179 22 10 21.1
    8 Jerod Mayo 2716 245 59 16 20.0
    9 Thomas Howard 2017 146 16 9 19.0
    10 Stephen Nicholas 1636 132 21 9 18.0
    11 D.J. Williams 3060 267 37 20 16.2
    12 Desmond Bishop 1624 179 33 14 16.1
    13 Mathias Kiwanuka 1788 113 20 9 15.8
    14 Keith Brooking 2116 185 34 15 15.6
    15 D'Qwell Jackson 1483 165 18 13 15




    He was 13 in nfl in tackling efficiency
    There you have it Bowman not even on the list but Willis is but according to some in this thread I am sure Willis did it all by himself with no help from Bowman lol. Boley is way up there on the list and Kiwi is on the list. It looks to me against the run Kiwi-Boley is a better tandem than Willis-Bowman if you want to go by stats. This stat reference proves my point about how teams stop the run not individuals. Kiwi does his job and his teammates need to do theirs.
    Last edited by repeatchamps; 10-02-2012 at 04:15 PM.
    Over 5500 posts, advanced member, joined March 2002. 1st post (as anonymous) was the day after Super Bowl 35

  10. #40
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    OP Just to prove you wrong, go to Coach Coughlin's presser from yesterday. fast forward to 5:45 and Coughlin says word for word "Did we make a great goal-line stand? You bet... Kiwanuka makes a great effort play tackling the runner at the line.."

    Clearly he makes big play, often going unnoticed as such.

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