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Thread: NEW YORK KNICKS 2012-2013 THREAD

  1. #4511
    Quote Originally Posted by Redeyejedi View Post
    but why its not like we r taking on extra money. at least those players can play at the same time as Melo. Amare is going to be forced into a minimal role. It may be easier to trade Fields or Bargs expiring contracts as well. Going to be hard to find 20 million in salary to get back in a trade
    i just hate their games. i'd rather hold out hope for the 5% chance that amare stays healthy. bargs can't stay healthy either and he's a soft big man. fields can't shoot so where would we play him? i still got love for amare. i would feel bad about trading him for that trash and sending him to that horrible organization. i think the raptors are hiring the nuggets GM so i doubt he would do that deal anyways.

  2. #4512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carter.525 View Post
    would Wolters be a reach in the 1st? He's got some nice skills plus he 6'4, 195.. could play him some at SG also
    In this paticular draft, no he would not be a reach for the knicks at 24.. No one truly knows how this draft is gonna play out because its more of a depth draft, then top heavy talent. I honestly believe alot of the best players in this draft will get drafted between the 15th pick thru the drafts 2nd rd..

    Wolters can play some point and has size to play 2guard as well.. He can shoot the ball from anywhere and also has some moves going to the rim. Hes kinda Gordan Hayward like, with alittle more explosion(when hes on).

    Like I said before,t his would be a great draft to get multiple picks, as I think the Knicks could easily get 2helpful parts, with how hard this yrs evaluation process is, so many guys are gonna go farther then they should of.. Some combonation of Nate Wolters, Kelly Olynck, Gorgi Dieng, Reggie Bullock, Shane Larkin, would be great..

  3. #4513
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    Quote Originally Posted by kNicksGiants View Post
    i just hate their games. i'd rather hold out hope for the 5% chance that amare stays healthy. bargs can't stay healthy either and he's a soft big man. fields can't shoot so where would we play him? i still got love for amare. i would feel bad about trading him for that trash and sending him to that horrible organization. i think the raptors are hiring the nuggets GM so i doubt he would do that deal anyways.
    I'd take Bargniani over Stat at this point. Hes younger, can shoot a heck of alot better these days, and dosen't need to be the one guy like STAT seems to need to be..

    STAT is completely useless playing with Carmelo. Its ridiculous a guy can't figure out how to play with another player. Its a joke that Stat can't figure out how to play well with another super star scorer.. Why would u even want a player like that?

  4. #4514
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    I'd take Bargniani over Stat at this point. Hes younger, can shoot a heck of alot better these days, and dosen't need to be the one guy like STAT seems to need to be..

    STAT is completely useless playing with Carmelo. Its ridiculous a guy can't figure out how to play with another player. Its a joke that Stat can't figure out how to play well with another super star scorer.. Why would u even want a player like that?
    stat is a far more effecient offensive player than barnani, not even close. also a far better rebounder and defender.

    where do you come up with this nonsense about stat being useless playing with melo? do you even watch the games or look at advanced statistics at all? according to advanced statistics the knicks best lineup was felton, JR, melo, stat, chandler.

    stat and melo playing together has NEVER been the problem. the problem was a combination of dantoni being a terrible coach that tried to play amare as a stretch 4 and have him shooting 3s (same thing he did to gasol on the lakers) due to chandler killing the offensive spacing along with amare's health. when amare was healthy this season he was playing amazing. i think he had a top 10 per if i'm not mistaken.

    the only reason for anyone to want to trade amare is his health and his contract. his play with melo has never been a problem. it's been completely overblown by the media and ignorant fans that just blame the 2 best players on the team.

    barnani is trash. doesn't rebound, doesn't defend, doesn't stay healthy. he's a worse version of stat. on paper he might fit better in between chandler and melo but that is only on offense. he's a worse defender and rebounder than stat. plus i doubt woodson would ever have a frontcourt of melo, bargs and chandler. he's in love with small ball and melo at the 4.

  5. #4515
    barnani shot .399 from the field and .309 from 3pt this past season. 11.23 per (15 is league average)

    amare had a per of 22.16.

    there is no comparison at all between amare and bargs. the only reason to discuss it is amare's health and contract. i don't think it is worth it to get a worse player that is also injury prone because the difference between amare's contract and bargs isn't enough to get the knicks under the cap so what's the point?

  6. #4516
    bargs contract is the same length as amare's and like 10 mil less per season.

    knicks right now will have 76 mil committed for 2014/15 if melo takes his player option. this is not including the MLE the knicks will surely use this year and next, along with the contract they give to JR which will be around 6 mil in that season.

    so if you replace amare with bargs (not even including fields' horrible contract that redeye originally suggested in the trade) the knicks will still be over the cap. so there is no added financial benefit for swapping amare with bargs other than the owner paying less luxury tax. which makes the debate simply about amare vs bargs the player, along with amare's health.

    which brings me back to my original thought. i'd rather take the small chance of amare being healthy over bargs. if amare stays healthy (a huge if i know) it could potentially put the knicks over the top and give them a chance at a title. bargs doesn't do that. he is simply not the type of player that impacts the game like amare.

    if the knicks could somehow move bargs for other role players then maybe it would be more plausible to me. there was some talk about boozer for bargs this past season. i would definitely consider doing amare for boozer in a 3 team trade. boozer has by far the most value out of those players so the knicks or raptors would have to include other assets to get it done. the bulls just wanted to get under the luxury tax more so than they wanted to get rid of boozer i think.
    Last edited by kNicksGiants; 05-25-2013 at 06:16 PM.

  7. #4517
    Quote Originally Posted by kNicksGiants View Post
    stat is a far more effecient offensive player than barnani, not even close. also a far better rebounder and defender.

    where do you come up with this nonsense about stat being useless playing with melo? do you even watch the games or look at advanced statistics at all? according to advanced statistics the knicks best lineup was felton, JR, melo, stat, chandler.

    stat and melo playing together has NEVER been the problem. the problem was a combination of dantoni being a terrible coach that tried to play amare as a stretch 4 and have him shooting 3s (same thing he did to gasol on the lakers) due to chandler killing the offensive spacing along with amare's health. when amare was healthy this season he was playing amazing. i think he had a top 10 per if i'm not mistaken.

    the only reason for anyone to want to trade amare is his health and his contract. his play with melo has never been a problem. it's been completely overblown by the media and ignorant fans that just blame the 2 best players on the team.

    barnani is trash. doesn't rebound, doesn't defend, doesn't stay healthy. he's a worse version of stat. on paper he might fit better in between chandler and melo but that is only on offense. he's a worse defender and rebounder than stat. plus i doubt woodson would ever have a frontcourt of melo, bargs and chandler. he's in love with small ball and melo at the 4.
    I think the Knicks need a stretch 4 Ive made that point many times. The spacing cant work with all 3 on the court. I think the pieces fit together better with a healthy Bargs. You may be right though Woodson probably would screw it all up and play them opposite each other which would totally negate the value he has.If you arent going to play him with Melo the majority of minutes then Amare is better to have.
    I also like the flexibility of 2 contracts rather then just 1 big 1 at the trade deadline if there is a piece they want. Amares expiring is great but its not going to be easy to find a 23 million in salaries to send back if that team is over
    Last edited by Redeyejedi; 05-25-2013 at 08:09 PM.

  8. #4518
    Quote Originally Posted by Redeyejedi View Post
    I think the Knicks need a stretch 4 Ive made that point many times. The spacing cant work with all 3 on the court. I think the pieces fit together better with a healthy Bargs. You may be right though Woodson probably would screw it all up and play them opposite each other which would totally negate the value he has.If you arent going to play him with Melo the majority of minutes then Amare is better to have.
    I also like the flexibility of 2 contracts rather then just 1 big 1 at the trade deadline if there is a piece they want. Amares expiring is great but its not going to be easy to find a 23 million in salaries to send back if that team is over
    it would help the offensive spacing but our defense would be even worse. bargs is a horrible rebounder and defender. i agree about the flexibility assuming bargs stayed healthy and upped his value some. fields is a horrible contract though, i doubt anyone would take him in any deal. he's not an nba caliber player.

    you're viewing it more as a trade for the future rebuild where as i'm still all in for the best chance of winning this year or next. plus you guys know i'm a homer and i still love amare... i really don't like bargs' game at all. i still despise fields as well (as a player, not as a person). i would view as a step back even if bargs was healthy.

    i don't think the spacing is the big problem with melo/amare, especially now that amare developed a solid post game and melo has improved his 3pt shooting. tyson is more of the problem. if the knicks had a center like gasol OMG stat and melo would absolutely work.
    Last edited by kNicksGiants; 05-25-2013 at 08:31 PM.

  9. #4519
    According to PER last season are PG's was the worst group for this team.

    Were did u find the + - with Melo and Stoudamire because from the 82 games site I got an even + - from adding and subtracting. The best lineup per minute I could find with all 3 on the court was Kidd Smith Melo Stoudamire Chandler. That Lineup was +25 in 56 minutes which is ridiculous really.
    The Felton Smith Melo Stoudamire Chandler group was +4 in 103 minutes. Not really that impressive. The worst unit with them together is with Stoudamire at Center. Prigioni-Smith-Novak-Anthony-Stoudemire was -29 in 47 minutes thats awful.

  10. #4520
    Quote Originally Posted by kNicksGiants View Post
    it would help the offensive spacing but our defense would be even worse. bargs is a horrible rebounder and defender. i agree about the flexibility assuming bargs stayed healthy and upped his value some. fields is a horrible contract though, i doubt anyone would take him in any deal. he's not an nba caliber player.

    you're viewing it more as a trade for the future rebuild where as i'm still all in for the best chance of winning this year or next. plus you guys know i'm a homer and i still love amare... i really don't like bargs' game at all. i still despise fields as well (as a player, not as a person).
    I think Fields sux to by the way I just know we would have to take that contract back from them to make that deal.

    Also the rebounding with Bargs at the 4 would still be better then who is playing the 3 for the Knicks now. If Woody doesnt play Melo and Bargs together though this trade is counter productive

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