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Thread: Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

  1. #1391
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    Every qb has throws like that, all of them. What about all the playoff games with over 70 percent completions? I would say that two Super Bowls and the way we got them, was pretty great...
    Don't get me wrong Dline, I'm not discounting everything Eli has done for us. 2007's SB win ranks right up there with the greatest days of my life.

    I'm simply giving my reason why (at present) I don't consider Eli one of the greatest of all time or "elite" as everyone likes to call it, which I believe is what Simms was talking about.

    I do think Eli is among the best during his era. That I agree with. He's in my top 4 or 5, but I don't see how you can ignore his recent slump and claim you're being objective. Granted, as defending world champs most people would be willing to cut their best players slack, but when it comes down to asking if he's amongst the very best, I think we need to look at it critically not give him a pass simply because of past accomplishments.
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  2. #1392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Don't get me wrong Dline, I'm not discounting everything Eli has done for us. 2007's SB win ranks right up there with the greatest days of my life.

    I'm simply giving my reason why (at present) I don't consider Eli one of the greatest of all time or "elite" as everyone likes to call it, which I believe is what Simms was talking about.

    I do think Eli is among the best during his era. That I agree with. He's in my top 4 or 5, but I don't see how you can ignore his recent slump and claim you're being objective. Granted, as defending world champs most people would be willing to cut their best players slack, but when it comes down to asking if he's amongst the very best, I think we need to look at it critically not give him a pass simply because of past accomplishments.
    I think you and I are essentially saying the samething:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    I would say that the 6th best qb in the league, with two Super Bowl wins, two Super Bowl MVP awards, and many other accolades would be considered one of the greats of the era. The word elite really is meaningless, and my argument has never been that he is elite, I do think that he is one of the best qbs in the league, and the best qb the Giants have ever had, just my opinion.

    A qb can be elite from game to game, was Rodgers last game "elite"? How about Payton's three pick performance earlier in the year? The different things that play into each of those games and the outcomes also are rarely taken into consideration. Against the Steelers our line could do barely anything to stop the pressure from getting to Manning. You commented somewhere about the int he threw right into the arms of the linebacker in the Washington game, it is really impossible to know why he did not see the player there, throwing lanes not being open, under pressure, the play breaking down, it could be any multiple of things. Im not making an excuse for the throw or the outcome, bad decision to throw it, but I am saying that to just lay the blame on the fact that he did not see him is really not looking at the play fully. I don't really care if people think Eli is elite or not, but I do think that when he has beaten some of the best qbs in the game on the biggest stages multiple times, that a good amount of credit is due.
    The only difference might be that you think Simms is the best qb the Giants have ever had, and you are entitled to that, and I would not ever try to persuade you to think differently, that is a matter of opinion. I just feel that when you look at Eli's career it warrents him being in the discussion of the best of his time.

  3. #1393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    I think you and I are essentially saying the samething:



    The only difference might be that you think Simms is the best qb the Giants have ever had, and you are entitled to that, and I would not ever try to persuade you to think differently, that is a matter of opinion. I just feel that when you look at Eli's career it warrents him being in the discussion of the best of his time.
    Phil Simms is my all-time favorite Giant which automatically makes Eli my second favorite QB.

    We obviously agree more than we disagree but I will say that I don't get down on Eli (or any other player) for pressing, but I do get down on Eli when he miscues on an easy play.
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  4. #1394
    im curious as to how brees performance is viewed by some here. this kind of performance isnt new to Brees either, he's had several games like this over his career where his ints had buried any chance at winning. now i know 95% of the time, brees is epic, but that other 5% he has some terrible stinkers....
    also, matt ryan has had a 5 int game, and an 11/25 for 140 (or whatever his stat line was tonite) in 2 of the last 3 weeks...

    it is my contention that even the elite qbs have bad games. i just think, as in any fan base, ur gonna have people with knee jerk reactions. i doubt we're going to see people let these pretty awful performances by brees and ryan redefine their level of play. eh i dunno i was just curious bc ive seen people literally state that "the great qbs simply do not have performances like eli has on bad days" and its just so completely untrue its ridiculous. i mean peyton manning had a 3 game stretch of like 12 ints (4x a game 3 games in a row) the final PLAYING year at Indy...maybe brady is the exception to the rule and doesnt really slump as much as have a bad game here n there, but even he has had stretches where he didnt play anywheres near his capability.

    and performances like tonight for brees really isnt anything new, he has a game or 2 like this a season. Im curious to see if Simms discusses the "elite" issue with brees performance...

  5. #1395
    i just find it a lil odd how it was really only giants fans who devalued eli bc of the slump. eli was leading the league in yards and was actually being dscusses as the league mvp candidate before his god awful slump. yeah it was terrible, and yeah he is prone to it, just couldnt get how it seemed as if people actually still believe eli is that qb instead of the 2011 one bc their responses def felt along the lines of "see, I told you, hes not great." i mean SKIP ****ING BAYLESS and rob parker felt simms statement held zero truth to it and that he was making the statement bc his pride, and that eli was elite bc of what he's done and what they know he will do...and thats the kings of knee jerk responses.
    when peyton threw those 3 first quarter ints at atlanta earlier in the year, there were people so quick to write him off, so it isnt exclusive to just eli. it just seems people are quicker to forget all the great things hes done and remember the tough times when eli goes thru a slump. maybe thats justified, but claiming no great qbs slump like eli did has just been proven wrong imho.

  6. #1396
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    im curious as to how brees performance is viewed by some here. this kind of performance isnt new to Brees either, he's had several games like this over his career where his ints had buried any chance at winning. now i know 95% of the time, brees is epic, but that other 5% he has some terrible stinkers....
    also, matt ryan has had a 5 int game, and an 11/25 for 140 (or whatever his stat line was tonite) in 2 of the last 3 weeks...

    it is my contention that even the elite qbs have bad games. i just think, as in any fan base, ur gonna have people with knee jerk reactions. i doubt we're going to see people let these pretty awful performances by brees and ryan redefine their level of play. eh i dunno i was just curious bc ive seen people literally state that "the great qbs simply do not have performances like eli has on bad days" and its just so completely untrue its ridiculous. i mean peyton manning had a 3 game stretch of like 12 ints (4x a game 3 games in a row) the final PLAYING year at Indy...maybe brady is the exception to the rule and doesnt really slump as much as have a bad game here n there, but even he has had stretches where he didnt play anywheres near his capability.

    and performances like tonight for brees really isnt anything new, he has a game or 2 like this a season. Im curious to see if Simms discusses the "elite" issue with brees performance...
    If your all ready elite you get a pass for such games as brees had tonight, unless of coarse your name is Eli...There is a whole different set of standards for our boy....thats seven picks for brees with two pick 6's in the last two weeks...just saying..... maybe he should be a little more carefull with the football.....

  7. #1397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martyr View Post
    **** Phil Simms, the Giants won a super bowl with a backup Qb when he got hurt
    You sir are a fool!

  8. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by byron View Post
    If your all ready elite you get a pass for such games as brees had tonight, unless of coarse your name is Eli...There is a whole different set of standards for our boy....thats seven picks for brees with two pick 6's in the last two weeks...just saying..... maybe he should be a little more carefull with the football.....
    well to be fair, 7 ints in 2 weeks is bad but one of the d's was SF. although, the 3 game slump eli had was vs dallas and pitt who are 2 of the top 3 pass d's iirc...i dunno. i know brees is tremendous and no doubt elite, but he has had issues with ints almost as badly as eli, and in some instances worse...but yeah brees leads the nfl in ints now, im curious to hear simms discuss brees, itd be awesome if someone asked him if he thought brees wasnt elite now just bc im curious to hear his opinion

  9. #1399
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    well to be fair, 7 ints in 2 weeks is bad but one of the d's was SF. although, the 3 game slump eli had was vs dallas and pitt who are 2 of the top 3 pass d's iirc...i dunno. i know brees is tremendous and no doubt elite, but he has had issues with ints almost as badly as eli, and in some instances worse...but yeah brees leads the nfl in ints now, im curious to hear simms discuss brees, itd be awesome if someone asked him if he thought brees wasnt elite now just bc im curious to hear his opinion
    I'm just messing man they all have their days as Giants fans we focus on our boy hence the different standard by ... imho.........I loved Phil also watched him play his whole career here.... he gets paid to runs his gums maybe he wishes he'd kept the shut now probably that we will never know.....

  10. #1400
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    I don't understand how so many fans can be upset at his comments. The guy has a point. Giants fans typically have a biased opinion and will try everything they can to block out the fact that Eli isn't nearly as efficient as guys like Rodgers, Brees, Peyton and Brady on a consistent basis. If Eli had production that was more similar to them, the Giants would ridiculously be a better team. There is no denying that.

    You guys need to relax and accept Eli for what he is. Regardless of the inconsistent play from season to season, we're capable of winning championships with him. The best team wins championships, not the team with the best QB.
    Last edited by BeatYale; 11-30-2012 at 01:28 AM.

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