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  1. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    he had an all time great arm. And he was very accurate as well. He stood tall in the pocket and was willing to take a direct hit in order to wait for a guy to break open. He was a great leader and field general. he was the QB during the most dominant era in my lifetime for our team. And in his most important game as a pro, he had an all time great performance.
    And as I said, he did it while having to overcome as much adversity as any NFL QB that ever succeeded. He would run the stadium stairs while the rest of the team practiced to rehab his knee. A knee he tore up in the end zone at Giants stadium while the fans cheered his injury.
    But he was not that accurate, his completion percentage shows that, he was very accurate at times, just like Eli (playoffs, 4th quarter) but Eli has a higher completion percentage. Simms only threw 60 percent or over twice. You can say all of the other points you made about Eli as well, he has gotten leveled while sitting in the pocket waiting for a throw to open up. Why do you think Simms overcame more adversity than any other qb, don't you think that is a bit of a generalization? Manning has not had a free pass while playing here, and then look at guys who are playing today, Sanchez, Henne, Quinn, McCoy, the list goes on... Simms got benched a few times over his career but he was given lots of chances to succeed also. If you had said from the beginning that it was just your preference I probably wouldn't have even posted anything, but you said you thought Simms was just a better football player.
    Last edited by Dline83; 11-26-2012 at 08:21 PM.

  2. #972
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alentown pa View Post
    lmao about the car dealer ship...you say they were horrific, do you mean in pass protection or overall? Because they paved the way for some big rushing seasons.
    Lets just look at 1984.
    Phil threw for 4000 yards. Check how many guys caught as many as 50 balls for him.....Zero.
    Check how many times he was sacked..............55.

    Phil got killed in 1984. And look at the production.

    This was the O line that gave up 3 safeties in one quarter.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    But he was not that accurate, his completion percentage shows that, he was very accurate at times, just like Eli (playoffs, 4th quarter) but Eli has a higher completion percentage. Simms only threw 60 percent or over twice. You can say all of the other points you made about Eli as well, he has gotten leveled while sitting in the pocket waiting for a throw to open up. Why do you think Simms overcame more adversity than any other qb, don't you think that is a bit of a generalization? Manning has not had a free pass while playing here, and then look at guys who are playing today, Sanchez, Henne, Quinn, McCoy, the list goes on... Simms got benched a few times over his career but he was given lots of chances to succeed also. If you had said from the beginning that it was just your preference I probably wouldn't have even posted anything, but you said you thought Simms was just a better football player.
    agreed on everything you've posted only thing about Simms was he more than once had his job taken away by a lesser player, Parcells even admitted it was a mistake in 83, and the 91 and 92 seasons were a joke not having him as the starter and Simms came back in 93 and had his best year, the guy was great but better than Eli IDK...Eli is a tough as they come...see niner championship game last year, the simms tough as nails argument does not fly with me, Eli is as tough as they come mentally and physicall out there...the proof is in the pudding.

  4. #974
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    But he was not that accurate, his completion percentage shows that, he was very accurate at times, just like Eli (playoffs, 4th quarter) but Eli has a higher completion percentage. Simms only threw 60 percent or over twice. You can say all of the other points you made about Eli as well, he has gotten leveled while sitting in the pocket waiting for a throw to open up. Why do you think Simms overcame more adversity than any other qb, don't you think that is a bit of a generalization? Manning has not had a free pass while playing here, and then look at guys who are playing today, Sanchez, Henne, Quinn, McCoy, the list goes on... Simms got benched a few times over his career but he was given lots of chances to succeed also. If you had said from the beginning that it was just your preference I probably wouldn't have even posted anything, but you said you thought Simms was just a better football player.
    Don't even try to go there. Phil threw the ball down field. He didn't have a dink and dunk offense like Montana did.
    Accuracy is measured by what you see on the field, not any stat. Completion % is effected by about 50 different things. The quality of the WR's and their ability to get open for one.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  5. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Lets just look at 1984.
    Phil threw for 4000 yards. Check how many guys caught as many as 50 balls for him.....Zero.
    Check how many times he was sacked..............55.

    Phil got killed in 1984. And look at the production.

    This was the O line that gave up 3 safeties in one quarter.
    Look at last season for Eli...worst rushing attack in the league and a defense that gave up more points than the offense scored...the guy carried us...like I said you do not have to sell me on Simms, I know he is your favorite and that is cool, just don't ever accuse someone of wearing blinders when it comes to Eli, when you do the same for Simms.

  6. #976
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alentown pa View Post
    the line simms has in front of him in 86 was well above average and as you said the line that included Jumbo was very good as well...you don't have to sell me on the greatness of Phil Simms I agree, but where you seem to like to accuse people of being an Eli homer, it seems to me your a Simms homer, nothing wrong with that, just seems to be the case...BTW I was half kidding about Bobby Johnson, although he did put up better numbers in his time with us than Manningham.
    We can all disagree about the Phil vs. Eli discussion.
    My real point is that suggesting that Eli isn't an "elite" QB isn't an insult to Eli. Its not a slam. Its not sour grapes. Its just one guy's opinion who knows a lot more than we do about playing QB in the NFL.
    And he's using his own definition of "elite". Because its very subjective.
    To me there are only 3 right now. Brady, Peyton and Brees. i don't include Rodgers yet because I don't love his mental toughness. He's a great talent and a great player but he's still a little mentally inconsistent.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  7. #977
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alentown pa View Post
    Look at last season for Eli...worst rushing attack in the league and a defense that gave up more points than the offense scored...the guy carried us...like I said you do not have to sell me on Simms, I know he is your favorite and that is cool, just don't ever accuse someone of wearing blinders when it comes to Eli, when you do the same for Simms.
    Eli had a great year last year and was one of the top QB's in the league. And its true that he had no running game. But he had tremendous playmakers at WR. Probably never a better trio in Giants history. Even the 99 yard pass to Cruz was a 10 yard throw, designed to get to the sticks.

    The guy did great and there is no argument, but his supporting cast was all time great.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Lets just look at 1984.
    Phil threw for 4000 yards. Check how many guys caught as many as 50 balls for him.....Zero.
    Check how many times he was sacked..............55.

    Phil got killed in 1984. And look at the production.

    This was the O line that gave up 3 safeties in one quarter.
    Very true 0 players caught more than 50 balls that year, two had 48 and there were 8 players that had double diget receptions. Simms also threw 22 td to 18 int and completed only 53.7 of his passes.

  9. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Don't even try to go there. Phil threw the ball down field. He didn't have a dink and dunk offense like Montana did.
    Accuracy is measured by what you see on the field, not any stat. Completion % is effected by about 50 different things. The quality of the WR's and their ability to get open for one.
    I don't really understand how you can write off stats completely, especially completion percentage over a long period of time, and by your logic those 50 different things would be playing a roll in Eli's completion percentage as well, yet it is higher.
    Last edited by Dline83; 11-26-2012 at 08:46 PM.

  10. #980
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    100 pages here we come!
    “Losers assemble in little groups and complain about the coaches and the players in other little groups, but winners assemble as a team,”

    - Emlen Tunnell

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