Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

[Sarcasman]

Randall Cunningham was great. And he killed us. Its actually a travesty that he's not a HOF'er.

+1

[Sarcasman]

well this debate is crazy because Warner was the best QB to wear a giants jersey. he was a Giant afterall.

Charlie Connerly's great, great, great grandson is gonna kick your *** for that.

[Sarcasman]

and Warren Moon got in there for what????? How many rings does Warren have? Marino too always seemed to xhalk up the yds but never win the big game

Coughlin and the Jags sent Marino packing 62-7

It's not all about championships. Marino was other-worldly-good.

[Gmen2005]

Cool. As long as he keeps winning us super bowls I couldn't care less what people call him.

[Morehead State]

What a lot of you younger guys do not know is that Wellington Mara decided to walk Phil to the parking lot rather than pay him his last 5 Million dollars to play out his contract.....Phil felt he still had the goods. and to be honest the horrific Ray Handley era followed

Phil secretly depises the Giants for what they, in his mind, did to him.......Mara also sent Parcells packing but it was never reported that way.
Parcells also despises the Giants

Both those points are pure fantasy. Phil loved Wellington Mara until the day he died. I'm sure he was angry after being released by George Young, but he loved Mr. Mara.
Secondly, Parcells stuck the Giants by quitting after the draft of 1991 where the only option the Giants had was to hire from inside, which was Ray Handley. It was Parcells who quit....and stuck the team in the process. Like they were going to fire a HC who just won his 2nd SB.

[Morehead State]

Both those points are pure fantasy. Phil loved Wellington Mara until the day he died. I'm sure he was angry after being released by George Young, but he loved Mr. Mara.
Secondly, Parcells stuck the Giants by quitting after the draft of 1991 where the only option the Giants had was to hire from inside, which was Ray Handley. It was Parcells who quit....and stuck the team in the process. Like they were going to fire a HC who just won his 2nd SB.

Oh Yeah....and Ray Handley was already gone when Phil played his last season. His last year was played for Dan Reeves. The Ray Handley mess was well before that.

[Rat_bastich]

Oh Yeah....and Ray Handley was already gone when Phil played his last season. His last year was played for Dan Reeves. The Ray Handley mess was well before that.

Yep, I was an observer at the last Giants training camp that Simms attended at Fairleigh ****inson. Kent Graham and Dave Brown were the quarterbacks and it was pretty much pre-determined by Reeves that Brown was to be the man. Brown received a majority of the snaps. That was actually LT's return from his achilles injury as well, of which he tore against the Packers the year before.

[Hessian]

This thread needs a butt plug...

[Roosevelt]

Originally Posted by BuffyBlueII
If you take Eli Manning and put him in the system that Phil Simms was in, Eli would have dominated that era. The system Phil Simms was in was painless and seamless. Eli would have thrived with that O line and run game. Heck, if Eli Manning were the QB back then, Mark Bavarro may have put up Gronkowski numbers. Our O line and run game was so great that when Hoss, a guy that ran a 4.28 40 took over, he rarely had to run.

I disagree for two reasons. While we had a strong group in the Surburbanites and a great RB in Joe Morris, we were weak at WR. If you watched the Giants back then you know how Phil sat back there waiting and waiting for guys to get open without any regard for the pounding he was about to take. Eli is not that type of QB. I see Eli struggling with the pressure and quite possibly going into the 'chuck and duck' mode instead giving the WR the extra time needed.

The other thing is that Parcells always looked to run out the clock the moment we got a lead, so Phil had to adapt to that and become a game manager. That meant: run, run, pass. Every player ay any position feels better when they can get into a rhythm. Parcells' strategy did not allow that for Phil, so many times he ended up throwing on average about 20 times a game - all when everyone and his mother knew he had to throw. No way do I see Eli being successful in that environment.

I think Phil Simms would have had issues with this system under Gillbride. I am not saying that he would not have gotten it but it would have taken him longer than Eli. Heck, it took Phil awhile to get the system he was in down and that one was simple as it gets.

First off Eli is still struggling with Gilbride's system so I'm not sure you should even speculate about this.

But anyway, things are so different now. For instance, there was no such thing as a QB coach for most of Phil's career. They just didn't study film and pay attention to every detail the way they do now.

The other thing when talking about the Giants system is you are failing to acknowledge Parcells' "interference" with Ron Erhardt's game plan. Ron and Phil rarely got to run their offense because of Bill Parcells insistence on running the ball the moment they got a lead, whereas Tom for the most part allows Kevin and Eli to throw whenever they want.

I'm not spewing angst at Phil but in my opinion, Eli is a better QB.

And you know what they say about opinions - they are just like a-holes. Everyone has one and they all stink.

[Rusty192]

Eli is not that type of QB. I see Eli struggling with the pressure and quite possibly going into the 'chuck and duck' mode instead giving the WR the extra time needed.

Not true. In the touchdown to Cruz against the Redskins, Eli got drilled the second he released the ball. He knew he was going to get killed, stayed in the pocket, and threw it downfield to hit Cruz in stride for the game winner.