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  1. #9
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
    There are a few here that have been waiting a long time for this...and to be honest, I knew the day was coming. Eli is elite if he is protected, has receivers that can create separation, and has some sort of running game to keep the defense honest. In this scenario, he would be MVP every year, however we may never know. I compare him favorably to QB's like Brady and even his brother. If you take away one or two of those aspects and they become very average...especially the protection and we only have to look at our SB's to see what you can do to Brady if you don't give him time.

    There are QB's out there that can succeed without great protection...for a while...but it seems these guys end up on the sideline for a stretch just about every year. How many times have you seen teams with QB's like these that head into the playoffs with their top QB out with injury.

    I think the real problem here on this board is that there are people here who lived through the Simms era and became very attached to him. They don't want anyone else to come and take his crown, and that is understandable. I would venture to say that it happens all the time with other fans of other teams. I can only imagine if anyone ever went to SF and challenged Montana's legend. It would be ugly would be putting it mildly.

    Like it was said before, elite is a subjective word. There is no set standard such as certain stats over a certain time to define it. Like I said before, I consider Eli elite because of the fact that he is chosen to endorse so many things, especially the ads that try to control the evils of the world. Not only has Eli accomplished a lot on the field, but he has gone about it in a way that is very honorable in a place that is not very conducive to such behavior. IMO, that makes him elite...but again, it will always just be an opinion when talking about a word like "elite".
    Well you make an interesting point regarding the "conditions" of Eli's eliteness.
    IF Eli has great protection, IF Eli has a good running game, IF Eli has WR's that create separation, he is Elite. Well so would many, many other QB's. I have always said that Eli needs really good players around him, to fulfill the scenario we just described.
    Is that "elite"? A guy who has to have these specific conditions around him to succeed? My view is no. Others clearly disagree.

    Now lets look at Phil. Despite the claims to the contrary, Phil spent most of his career getting killed due to a horrific O line. To me, only Davis Carr has been hit more often than Phil in NFL history. Phil had below average pass catchers. The list of mediocrity at the WR position is troubling. He did have Bavaro who was great, but when Phil threw for 4000 yards, he didn't have Bavaro. He didn't have a single guy catch 50 balls.

    Ultimately the conditions on the ground matter. Eli has had two generations of outstanding pass catchers. He has had much better O line protection. In other words, Phil did it with far, far less. In my view, he was simply better. Not just because of these factors, but because of his raw ability and skill level to play the game. Phil was just a better passer, had a better release, was a better field general. And Eli's "bad" is really, really bad. Phil was never as bad as we've seen the past 4 weeks.
    This topic will be argued by Giants fans forever. It will never be resolved. But hopefully when the agenda's are put away, a more calm and intelligent debate can be had.
    Last edited by Morehead State; 11-19-2012 at 09:18 AM.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

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