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Thread: Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

  1. #911
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Phil didn't take any shots at all. He expressed his opinion.
    That's like saying Tiki didn't take any shots at all. He expressed his opinion.



  2. #912
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBGiantsFan View Post
    Sure, all he did was express his opinion. He is also a football analyst and commentator and has to expand his career. There are plenty of reasons he why he said what he said.

    However, while Simms has moved on, most of us are still Giants fans and expect loyalty to our team. Maybe it's an unreasonable expectation. Honestly, the only guy consistenly pro-Giants has been Michael Strahan, hence why he may be the single most beloved Giant.

    Whether it was a shot at Eli or not, Simms comment rubbed the fans the wrong way, and rightfully so. The fact is, he wasn't belittling the level of play and talent of a journeyman football player, he was talking about a 2x superbowl champion fresh of a champtionship LAST year, Pro-Bowler, and MVP (superbowl).
    How dare he!
    The last thing we need in the world is a little honesty.

    No sir....we must march in lock step (or should I say "goosestep") with the masses of the obedient . We must reduce those who challenge his greatness to the rubble of history, and send them eastward in railcars, never to be heard from again.


    Or we could........ FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!!!
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #913
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimaniac View Post
    That's like saying Tiki didn't take any shots at all. He expressed his opinion.


    Woah, What Simms did and what Tiki did were on two different levels. Tiki badmouthed everything about the Giants from Eli to TC to further his young commentating career. Simms was asked what he thought the definition of Elite was and then was trapped into saying what he did by the interviewer. In fact, he gave Eli all the credit in the world in that interview too, but like most people, you only focus on the part that you can argue with, so get your facts straight!!!!

  4. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimaniac View Post
    That's like saying Tiki didn't take any shots at all. He expressed his opinion.


    dont even mention Tiki and Simms in that regard in the same breath....
    way off base there.....
    "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
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  5. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYGFaninILL View Post
    Woah, What Simms did and what Tiki did were on two different levels. Tiki badmouthed everything about the Giants from Eli to TC to further his young commentating career. Simms was asked what he thought the definition of Elite was and then was trapped into saying what he did by the interviewer. In fact, he gave Eli all the credit in the world in that interview too, but like most people, you only focus on the part that you can argue with, so get your facts straight!!!!
    Not only that but Tiki violated locker room confidences with his comments. His commenst were a pathetic attempt to mock Eli. And he clearly did it out of resentment.
    Thats a far cry from objective analysis about what is and what isn't an "elite" QB.
    Some of these guys crack me up.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  6. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Agree to disagee. Phil was a just a better football player.
    Just wondering what makes you say that? Eli will own ever passing record for the Giants when he is finished, has won two Super Bowls and two Super Bowl MVP awards and has led us to multiple conference titles. I think Simms was a great player but he was injured a fair amount and also had his early struggles, 1980 he threw 15 td and 19 picks and only completed 48 percent of his passes. The next year he threw 11 td and 9 picks but still only completed 54 percent of his throws. He then was injured on and off for a season and a half, missing one entire season. He was then benched, came into a game against the eagles and hurt his thumb and was out again for the season. If you do not remember, he was pretty unpopular in the ny area. It was at this time that an assistant coach convinced Simms to spend more time studying, watching film, and learning the teams offense/audibles. It was after this that Simms started to produce at a much higher level, going on to be voted to the pro bowl, get MVP pro bowl honors (with three touchdowns) and had his best seasons in 85 and 86 and an amazing Super Bowl performance gaining him the Super Bowl MVP award. After the 86 season he had some highs and some lows, playing a pretty bad game in the playoffs against the rams in 89 and then posting the highest qb rating and having a great year in 90 before breaking his foot. He was injured on and off for the rest of his career posting one more great season in 93 only to have shoulder surgery after the season. He was released by the Giants that offseason and retired. Simms only completed over 60 percent of his passes twice in 92 and 93, had four seasons with more or the same int as td throws, and only had a qb rating of over 80 6 times in his 14 seasons. In comparison, Eli has never missed a game, has completed 60 percent or more of his passes 5 our of 9 seasons, and has only one season throwing more int than td, his rookie year. There are a lot of other intangibles you can use as well, the evolution of the nfl defense, the rules changing, the physicality of the players...the list goes on and on, and can be used in ways to support claims off each qb. I understand your point of it being a different era but the injury situation and numbers, at least to me, make it a no brainier...Eli is the best qb to ever play for the giants in my mind and you are certainly untitled to your opinion, I'm just wondering what leads you to the outcome that Simms was/is the better qb of the two?

  7. #917
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    How dare he!
    The last thing we need in the world is a little honesty.

    No sir....we must march in lock step (or should I say "goosestep") with the masses of the obedient . We must reduce those who challenge his greatness to the rubble of history, and send them eastward in railcars, never to be heard from again.


    Or we could........ FIGHT THE POWER!!!!!!!
    Not sure how to respond to your sardonic post or your reference to railcars (Holocaust) which I find offensive, other than to say that as fans, our expectations from previously great players is to show some loyalty to their team. He was honest, sure, and his honestly felt like a slight. Amani Toomer was honest when he said he through Romo was a better QB than Eli, and it felt like a slight. I'm not saying we should muzzle Simms, simply that his comment was a slight to Eli, and based on Eli's accomplishments, unjust.

  8. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBGiantsFan View Post
    Not sure how to respond to your sardonic post or your reference to railcars (Holocaust) which I find offensive, other than to say that as fans, our expectations from previously great players is to show some loyalty to their team. He was honest, sure, and his honestly felt like a slight. Amani Toomer was honest when he said he through Romo was a better QB than Eli, and it felt like a slight. I'm not saying we should muzzle Simms, simply that his comment was a slight to Eli, and based on Eli's accomplishments, unjust.
    Who did it feel like a slight to? You? A couple other fans?
    It was far from a slight. The ultimate truth is that Eli is tremendously inconsistent. You just don't know which Eli will show up from game to game.
    Thats not elite. Thats a guy who can show flashes of greatness one week and then look like a rookie who's never played an NFL game the next. I thought he had lost some of that inconsistency after last year. But in the 4 game stretch starting with Wash. we saw play that reminded us all of his rookie season.
    Now he's a fine player, and he will accumulate some great stats in passing yards and TD's, solely because of longevity, because his year to year numbers aren't that great.

    Now that's my opinion. It seems to be Phil's opinion as well. I'm sure its the opinion of many observers of the NFL. You can agree or disagree with that. That's the way the world goes round. But its NOT an insult to Eli to have this view. And to go after Phil as if he has some axe to grind because he has the view he has is not supported by any fact. Its just a kneejerk reaction by those who question anyone's motives who DARE to question Eli's greatness.

    If I offended you I apologize. It was a poor attempt at humor. But this "attack anyone who questions Eli" attitude by some here has to be challenged.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #919
    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    Just wondering what makes you say that? Eli will own ever passing record for the Giants when he is finished, has won two Super Bowls and two Super Bowl MVP awards and has led us to multiple conference titles. I think Simms was a great player but he was injured a fair amount and also had his early struggles, 1980 he threw 15 td and 19 picks and only completed 48 percent of his passes. The next year he threw 11 td and 9 picks but still only completed 54 percent of his throws. He then was injured on and off for a season and a half, missing one entire season. He was then benched, came into a game against the eagles and hurt his thumb and was out again for the season. If you do not remember, he was pretty unpopular in the ny area. It was at this time that an assistant coach convinced Simms to spend more time studying, watching film, and learning the teams offense/audibles. It was after this that Simms started to produce at a much higher level, going on to be voted to the pro bowl, get MVP pro bowl honors (with three touchdowns) and had his best seasons in 85 and 86 and an amazing Super Bowl performance gaining him the Super Bowl MVP award. After the 86 season he had some highs and some lows, playing a pretty bad game in the playoffs against the rams in 89 and then posting the highest qb rating and having a great year in 90 before breaking his foot. He was injured on and off for the rest of his career posting one more great season in 93 only to have shoulder surgery after the season. He was released by the Giants that offseason and retired. Simms only completed over 60 percent of his passes twice in 92 and 93, had four seasons with more or the same int as td throws, and only had a qb rating of over 80 6 times in his 14 seasons. In comparison, Eli has never missed a game, has completed 60 percent or more of his passes 5 our of 9 seasons, and has only one season throwing more int than td, his rookie year. There are a lot of other intangibles you can use as well, the evolution of the nfl defense, the rules changing, the physicality of the players...the list goes on and on, and can be used in ways to support claims off each qb. I understand your point of it being a different era but the injury situation and numbers, at least to me, make it a no brainier...Eli is the best qb to ever play for the giants in my mind and you are certainly untitled to your opinion, I'm just wondering what leads you to the outcome that Simms was/is the better qb of the two?
    Good points. Saying Simms is better used to be an opinion. Now it is just a flat out incorrect statement.

    Saying Danny Kennell was a better QB than Simms is also an opinion.

  10. #920
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Who did it feel like a slight to? You? A couple other fans?
    It was far from a slight. The ultimate truth is that Eli is tremendously inconsistent. You just don't know which Eli will show up from game to game.
    Thats not elite. Thats a guy who can show flashes of greatness one week and then look like a rookie who's never played an NFL game the next. I thought he had lost some of that inconsistency after last year. But in the 4 game stretch starting with Wash. we saw play that reminded us all of his rookie season.
    Now he's a fine player, and he will accumulate some great stats in passing yards and TD's, solely because of longevity, because his year to year numbers aren't that great.

    Now that's my opinion. It seems to be Phil's opinion as well. I'm sure its the opinion of many observers of the NFL. You can agree or disagree with that. That's the way the world goes round. But its NOT an insult to Eli to have this view. And to go after Phil as if he has some axe to grind because he has the view he has is not supported by any fact. Its just a kneejerk reaction by those who question anyone's motives who DARE to question Eli's greatness.

    If I offended you I apologize. It was a poor attempt at humor. But this "attack anyone who questions Eli" attitude by some here has to be challenged.
    I think the misunderstanding here is, the fans are not upset by random commentators saying Eli is not elite, the fans are upset that it's a New York Giant great saying it. Simms matters to us, and we expect him to be like us, loyal to his team. Now, obviously he doesn't have to be, but the real slight is not that someone said Eli is not elite, it's that Simms said it. As fans, we expect more from our Ex players. His timing is also such that he says it when Eli is having a down few games. I didn't hear him say that at the beginning of the season.

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