Phil Simms: "No, Eli Is Not One Of The Elites....."

[Kruunch]

Phil beat all those guys in big spots. The exception was Marino since he never played him in a huge spot.

He didn't beat neither Kelly nor Marino in big spots and with the rare exception, was never credited with winning a game single handedly the way those other QBs (and Eli for that matter) have been.

Phil was the consummate game manager by and large.

[gumby74]

The QBR rating is a joke! Plz don't anyone else bring that up!

Oh, but it isn't. It does NOT tell the entire story, but it IS a good indicator. I'll bet you 9 out of 10 times a QB is "better" than another one if they have 20 more QB points. A few points difference is difficult to judge because there are so many factors that come into play. But a fairly significant difference is telling.

[stormblue]

neither one of them are/were top 5 at anything statistically during their playing time.
Simms was not the cream of the crop during his generation.
neither is Eli.
they are/were both great ny giants and i wouldn't trade either one for anyone else...
not Simms for Marino nor Eli for Brady , because i like home-grown-started-with-us original Giants......

but if you take away the rings ; both their stats are pedestrian at best.

Phil is not in the hall , cuz he doesn't have the stats.
Eli will need another ring to make it , cuz he doesn't have the stats either.

[gumby74]

neither one of them are/were top 5 at anything statistically during their playing time.
Simms was not the cream of the crop during his generation.
neither is Eli.
they are/were both great ny giants and i wouldn't trade either one for anyone else...
not Simms for Marino nor Eli for Brady , because i like home-grown-started-with-us original Giants......

but if you take away the rings ; both their stats are pedestrian at best.

Phil is not in the hall , cuz he doesn't have the stats.
Eli will need another ring to make it , cuz he doesn't have the stats either.

Too many players get into the HoF as it is, imo. But HoF players should be one in a era types. Right now, it's just Brady and Peyton imo. Even Big Ben doesn't qualify. Brees while great, doesn't have the oomph factor.

As much as I loved Phil, he was largely a game manager imo - mainly because that's how Parcells played him. He certainly had the ability to do more. IMO, Eli and Phil rank roughly around the same position relative to their peers. Phil was solid and a bulldog. Eli is "clutch" under 2 minutes. Eli's career is still being written. But as of now, both were/are good, but nothing to scream about.

[stormblue]

Too many players get into the HoF as it is, imo. But HoF players should be one in a era types. Right now, it's just Brady and Peyton imo. Even Big Ben doesn't qualify. Brees while great, doesn't have the oomph factor.

i would tend to agree.

[nygfanmaybe]

But HoF players should be one in a era types.

OK...let's test your theory. I am predicting HOF for Brett Favre. According to your theory...in all the time that Brett played, he should be the only one that is admitted into the HOF who played in his era...is that how it works?

[Roosevelt]

Simms was one of the best bad weather QBs of all time imo...However I don't get why we need to build a case for Simms,I think we can all agree how much he meant to this franchise. I personally all things considered, era, style of the game, supporting cast think Eli has been every bit as important and great for this team...We just played the Packers...I wonder if they argue Rodgers vs Favre like this.

I agree.

You are right that we shouldn't have to make a case for Phil. His jersey has already been retired.

And Eli is every bit as important to our franchise as Phil. The difference is in the circumstances the team was in when they arrived.

[Roosevelt]

[QUOTE=Dline83;593551]

If you've been watching the game as long as you say you have, then you know the changes in the sport which favor the offense.

I do take those things into consideration, but do not think that means you can not use stats from that time period for arguments sake. There have been things that both players have dealt with, Eli has worked with a good amount of different players on the offense, has had the playing style of the offense change, and if you really want to get serious, the difference in the athletic abilities of players from the 80s to the 2000s, as well as the quality of the defenses from each time period. The argument to discount stats is just something I disagree with, would you buy a stock without looking at a companies history?

A quarterback's stats don't tell the whole story, so while I don't ignore them completely, they shouldn't define a player or his career.

For instance, 20 years from now a young fan looks through the Giant's record book and sees our longest TD pass in history - Eli's 99 yarder to Cruz against the Jets last year. No one would know it was only a 10 yard throw.

[GameTime]

neither one of them are/were top 5 at anything statistically during their playing time.
Simms was not the cream of the crop during his generation.
neither is Eli.
they are/were both great ny giants and i wouldn't trade either one for anyone else...
not Simms for Marino nor Eli for Brady , because i like home-grown-started-with-us original Giants......

but if you take away the rings ; both their stats are pedestrian at best.

Phil is not in the hall , cuz he doesn't have the stats.
Eli will need another ring to make it , cuz he doesn't have the stats either.

how do you "take away the rings"...??????????? isn't that the ultimate goal????

Eli's stats are more than pedestrian.....IMO especially since he is no where near being done yet.
I love Simms and as far as I am concerned if Nameth is in then Simms should be. I get all the Nameth love but the guy had more picks then TDs , had a crappy record, and his comp % was great at all. He won a SB and was an icon. They only reasons he is in.....

[Morehead State]

He didn't beat neither Kelly nor Marino in big spots and with the rare exception, was never credited with winning a game single handedly the way those other QBs (and Eli for that matter) have been.

Phil was the consummate game manager by and large.

Would you care to define "game manager"?
Because its used in so many way it seems to have no meaning.