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  1. #1171
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    But what does that have to do with him being a good quarter back? Not every quarter back is going to have legendary moments in every game. Peyton certainly didn't look legendary against the chiefs this past week.
    I'm not saying that legendary moments are always going to happen but there's something about the other QBs when they get in the zone and they seem to hit that stride on a more frequent basis than Eli. They become almost machine like as if they aren't even from this planet. They'll say Eli was clutch which is certainly nothing to be ashamed of but he won't be viewed as extraordinary on an NFL level like Peyton or Brady.
    3/25/14 - Updated Mock with 5th round comp pick

    1. Anthony Barr, Defensive End, UCLA
    2. Marcus Martin, Center Guard, USC
    3. Anthony Johnson, Defensive Nostril Tackle, LSU
    4. Marcel Jensen, Offensive End, Fresno State
    5. Wesley Johnson, Offensive Any Guard, Vanderbilt
    5. Aaron Colvin, Defensive Halfback, Oklahoma
    6. Storm Johnson, Guy Who Runs With Football, UCF

  2. #1172
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    I'm not saying that legendary moments are always going to happen but there's something about the other QBs when they get in the zone and they seem to hit that stride on a more frequent basis than Eli. They become almost machine like as if they aren't even from this planet. They'll say Eli was clutch which is certainly nothing to be ashamed of but he won't be viewed as extraordinary on an NFL level like Peyton or Brady.
    So is being as you say "machine like" better than being clutch in your opinion?

    I'm not knocking your opinion, I just want to know.
    Will Hill is the J.R. Smith of the NFL.

  3. #1173
    Veteran Rusty192's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    I'm not saying that legendary moments are always going to happen but there's something about the other QBs when they get in the zone and they seem to hit that stride on a more frequent basis than Eli. They become almost machine like as if they aren't even from this planet. They'll say Eli was clutch which is certainly nothing to be ashamed of but he won't be viewed as extraordinary on an NFL level like Peyton or Brady.
    They will see his two SB wins. Which came against Brady no less, who's to say people won't assume he was "extraordinary"?
    Last edited by Rusty192; 11-28-2012 at 04:07 PM.

  4. #1174
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    So is being as you say "machine like" better than being clutch in your opinion?

    I'm not knocking your opinion, I just want to know.
    On a minute-to-minute basis and in the regular season, I'd say it is. For the playoffs, there isn't any other QB I'd want on my team over Eli. He played on that machine like level last year starting with the Falcons. The way I see it, and people can certainly disagree, is that when people talk about top notch QB play, Eli won't be one of the first names mentioned. It just happens to come with the era he is apart of and as a little brother myself, I can feel for Eli being an awesome QB who is overshadowed by his even better bigger brother lol.
    3/25/14 - Updated Mock with 5th round comp pick

    1. Anthony Barr, Defensive End, UCLA
    2. Marcus Martin, Center Guard, USC
    3. Anthony Johnson, Defensive Nostril Tackle, LSU
    4. Marcel Jensen, Offensive End, Fresno State
    5. Wesley Johnson, Offensive Any Guard, Vanderbilt
    5. Aaron Colvin, Defensive Halfback, Oklahoma
    6. Storm Johnson, Guy Who Runs With Football, UCF

  5. #1175
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty192 View Post
    They will see his two SB wins. Which came against Brady no less, who's to say people won't assume he was "extraordinary"?
    Outside of the 2007 playoffs, 2011 season + playoffs, and a few games (like this year's TB game), there's not much memorable moments on a regular basis for the average NFL fan. He will obviously go down in Giants lore as extraordinary but I'm not sure that will be the case for everyone else.
    3/25/14 - Updated Mock with 5th round comp pick

    1. Anthony Barr, Defensive End, UCLA
    2. Marcus Martin, Center Guard, USC
    3. Anthony Johnson, Defensive Nostril Tackle, LSU
    4. Marcel Jensen, Offensive End, Fresno State
    5. Wesley Johnson, Offensive Any Guard, Vanderbilt
    5. Aaron Colvin, Defensive Halfback, Oklahoma
    6. Storm Johnson, Guy Who Runs With Football, UCF

  6. #1176
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    Tyree Helmet Catch, Manningham pass to the sidelines, somehow not falling into two pieces against the 49ers pass rush...things like that. As of now, he won't be forgotten in NFL lore though people will say "Yeah, he had those moments but he was too inconsistent on a game to game basis".
    I think you have that reversed. People will remember him *now* like that because they can see him play. 20 years from now he'll be lauded as one of the best QBs of his generation.

    Hindsight always comes with rose-colored glasses. Just ask Simms

  7. #1177
    Veteran Rusty192's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    Outside of the 2007 playoffs, 2011 season + playoffs, and a few games (like this year's TB game), there's not much memorable moments on a regular basis for the average NFL fan. He will obviously go down in Giants lore as extraordinary but I'm not sure that will be the case for everyone else.
    That's your opinion though. If the average fan sees 2 SB wins, a few over 4000 yd seasons, most TD's thrown in the 4th quarter etc...These a just examples that he wasn't a slouch in the reg season.

    Also most playoff road wins. None of your other flashy QB's can attest to that. And as I said before, to beat what some consider the greatest to play the game in Brady. Twice. On the biggest stage.



    If the average fan in the future sees that, they'd be hard pressed to say Eli wasn't one the of best QB's to play the position.

  8. #1178
    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    I think you have that reversed. People will remember him *now* like that because they can see him play. 20 years from now he'll be lauded as one of the best QBs of his generation.

    Hindsight always comes with rose-colored glasses. Just ask Simms
    Depends on one's definition of best I suppose. Best as getting his team further to the Lombardi versus others? Best as in individual talent from a pure passing standpoint? Montana is a good example of the first definition I listed but I don't think you can put him in a discussion with the likes of Marino with the 2nd definition. If I'm sitting down with a young kid who wants to be a promising QB beyond HS, I show him Peyton tape or Marino tape.
    3/25/14 - Updated Mock with 5th round comp pick

    1. Anthony Barr, Defensive End, UCLA
    2. Marcus Martin, Center Guard, USC
    3. Anthony Johnson, Defensive Nostril Tackle, LSU
    4. Marcel Jensen, Offensive End, Fresno State
    5. Wesley Johnson, Offensive Any Guard, Vanderbilt
    5. Aaron Colvin, Defensive Halfback, Oklahoma
    6. Storm Johnson, Guy Who Runs With Football, UCF

  9. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty192 View Post
    That's your opinion though. If the average fan sees 2 SB wins, a few over 4000 yd seasons, most TD's thrown in the 4th quarter etc...These a just examples that he wasn't a slouch in the reg season.

    Also most playoff road wins. None of your other flashy QB's can attest to that. And as I said before, to beat what some consider the greatest to play the game in Brady. Twice. On the biggest stage.



    If the average fan in the future sees that, they'd be hard pressed to say Eli wasn't one the of best QB's to play the position.
    You bring up some great points but you have to admit that 4000 yd seasons aren't as impressive as they used to be and the guys we are comparing Eli to now (Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc) easily achieve those feats. The TDs in the 4th quarter for the 2011 season is a great individual achievement but how do they compare to multiple regular season MVPs or what about Brees and Brady both breaking Marino's most yards in a single season record?

    Road playoff wins is another great achievement but couldn't that be argued to be more of a team accomplishment and perhaps more of a sign of the success Coughlin has on the road in the playoffs?

    Eli beating Brady is a tough one. Some people will see it that way but others see the two QBs just playing different defenses. Brady certainly put the Patriots in good enough spots to beat the Giants in both SBs but his defense couldn't hold. It's very debatable.

    I'm with Harooni (lol) that Eli could use a regular season MVP to really cement his place in the HoF today. That's just me though.
    3/25/14 - Updated Mock with 5th round comp pick

    1. Anthony Barr, Defensive End, UCLA
    2. Marcus Martin, Center Guard, USC
    3. Anthony Johnson, Defensive Nostril Tackle, LSU
    4. Marcel Jensen, Offensive End, Fresno State
    5. Wesley Johnson, Offensive Any Guard, Vanderbilt
    5. Aaron Colvin, Defensive Halfback, Oklahoma
    6. Storm Johnson, Guy Who Runs With Football, UCF

  10. #1180
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    Depends on one's definition of best I suppose. Best as getting his team further to the Lombardi versus others? Best as in individual talent from a pure passing standpoint? Montana is a good example of the first definition I listed but I don't think you can put him in a discussion with the likes of Marino with the 2nd definition. If I'm sitting down with a young kid who wants to be a promising QB beyond HS, I show him Peyton tape or Marino tape.
    Both are credible sources of being "best" and have been up to now.

    You have your stats guys (Marino, Peyton, etc ...), your "legendary moment" guys (Elway, Eli) and multiple ring guys (Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, etc ...).

    If you look at it like that, you can actually make a strong case for Elway being the best QB in football history, since he's managed to be in all three groups.

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