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  1. #1361
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    I believe you are the unarmed one, you consistently fail to prove your point. You have your opinion, I respect that, and I wouldn't try to prove that you should like Manning more than Simms, that is a preference, but when you try to convince others that Eli is an average to above average qb and you fail to address any facts brought up by your opposition, you really make a very weak argument.
    I didn't say he was average to above average.
    I said he is a very good QB but not a great QB.
    I think Eli has only 5 guys currently that are better. Thats not an indictment of Eli. Some of you guys just think it is.

    And trust me....I'm packing!
    Last edited by Morehead State; 11-29-2012 at 03:48 PM.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  2. #1362
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    Phil Sims is to the Giants as Joe Theisman is to the Redskins. I've met them both and they are egomaniacal turds. Phil was a keynote speaker at a conference I attended years ago. I was expecting an entertaining presentation. What I got was a long, boring stream-of-conciousness rambling about his life in the NFL. As soon as he was done, he was gone. No Q&A. Nada.

  3. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinSkin View Post
    Phil Sims is to the Giants as Joe Theisman is to the Redskins. I've met them both and they are egomaniacal turds. Phil was a keynote speaker at a conference I attended years ago. I was expecting an entertaining presentation. What I got was a long, boring stream-of-conciousness rambling about his life in the NFL. As soon as he was done, he was gone. No Q&A. Nada.
    Had the same experience with Simms. Went to a 25 year anniversary breakfast for the 1986 SB team. Everyone was allowed to get on line and get autographs and pictures. Simms was the only guy there who wouldn't let you take a photo of him. Found him to be a pompous ***.

  4. #1364
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    Then prove it! You never even made a comment about the comparison between Montana and Eli's first eight years, you discredit stats that do not prove your point, I mean the discussion started out as Simms vs Manning and then spiraled into all of this. The truth is that statistically Manning is on track to have an amazing and historic career, will reset ever passing record for the Giants, owns multiple NFL records, owns the best performance by a qb in the postseason (most passing yards in the playoffs), two Super Bowls, and two Super Bowl MVP, just how is that not good for one of the greatest of his time, not all time, but this current period of time in the NFL?
    Eli is everything you said but at the same time he's also someone who has trouble making short throws as evidenced by his terrible throws to Hyno and Ahmad last game. When I see that I don't think of greatest.

    Contrast that with Phil. When Phil had time his passes were always on the money.
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  5. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Eli is everything you said but at the same time he's also someone who has trouble making short throws as evidenced by his terrible throws to Hyno and Ahmad last game. When I see that I don't think of greatest.

    Contrast that with Phil. When Phil had time his passes were always on the money.
    Isn't that true of MOST QBS when they have time to throw. Make no mistake, Simms was tough as nails and would stay in the pocket until the bitter end to deliver the ball. But also held onto the ball too long many times and took way too many sacks in big spots similar to Big Ben.

  6. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    I didn't say he was average to above average.
    I said he is a very good QB but not a great QB.
    I think Eli has only 5 guys currently that are better. Thats not an indictment of Eli. Some of you guys just think it is.

    And trust me....I'm packing!
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    I'm an army of 1.
    My mission......To keep the glorious memory of Phil Simms fresh in the minds of my fellow MB posters....and to make sure that we all be realistic about Eli.......... That he's a fine player but not one of the greats of this era.
    Wouldn't you say calling him a very good qb and a fine player equal out to saying he is average to above average? What defines a great qb to you?
    Last edited by Dline83; 11-29-2012 at 04:35 PM.

  7. #1367
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yatitle View Post
    Isn't that true of MOST QBS when they have time to throw. Make no mistake, Simms was tough as nails and would stay in the pocket until the bitter end to deliver the ball. But also held onto the ball too long many times and took way too many sacks in big spots similar to Big Ben.
    Yes, most qood QB's can deliver the ball when given time. But Eli for some reason has trouble with short range passes.

    Look at the play where he had Hyno wide open in the endzone, and overthrew him by 3 feet, and then later when dumping it off to Ahmad, he throws a laser at him from 5 yards away. It has to be a mental thing with him a times. I've never seen a QB who can play so great then turn around and throw the ball so poorly.
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  8. #1368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dline83 View Post
    Wouldn't you say calling him a ver good qb and a fine player equal out to saying he is average to above average? What defines a great qb to you?
    Probably the top 4. As i said yesterday, In my view there is Brady and Peyton, then a big drop off, then Rodgers and Brees, then another big drop off, then Ben and Eli with a few others like Ryan and maybe even Freeman nipping at their heels.

    So great would be Brady, Peyton, Rodgers and Brees. But that's just what rattles around in my head.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #1369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Probably the top 4. As i said yesterday, In my view there is Brady and Peyton, then a big drop off, then Rodgers and Brees, then another big drop off, then Ben and Eli with a few others like Ryan and maybe even Freeman nipping at their heels.

    So great would be Brady, Peyton, Rodgers and Brees. But that's just what rattles around in my head.
    Can't we at least wait for Ryan to win a playoff game and Freeman to play in one, before they are mentioned in the class of Eli and Ben who have both WON 2 SBs? I think you are packing a watergun.

  10. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Eli is everything you said but at the same time he's also someone who has trouble making short throws as evidenced by his terrible throws to Hyno and Ahmad last game. When I see that I don't think of greatest.

    Contrast that with Phil. When Phil had time his passes were always on the money.
    That is just an incorrect statement. Would that be why he had a 55.4 average? You mention two short throws that didn't make it in the vicinity of the target, that is how you define greatness? Seems a little narrow sighted to me...

    What about the -24 degree Packers game, the two Super Bowls, all the other playoff games, the yards in the playoffs, the consecutive starts, the 4th quarter comebacks and touchdowns? I would think leading your team to 24 4th quarter comebacks and having the most td in the 4th quarter would be a better measure of greatness than looking at any number of throws that didn't make it to the target. In addition, you fail to ask why those throws were off, pressure, throwing lanes, etc...

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