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  1. #1401
    Quote Originally Posted by BeatYale View Post
    . If Eli had production that was more similar to them, the Giants would ridiculously be a better team. There is no denying that.
    ...and over the last 8 years the Giants would have more Lombardi's than Brady, Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers. Oh...wait...

  2. #1402
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    im curious as to how brees performance is viewed by some here. this kind of performance isnt new to Brees either, he's had several games like this over his career where his ints had buried any chance at winning. now i know 95% of the time, brees is epic, but that other 5% he has some terrible stinkers....
    also, matt ryan has had a 5 int game, and an 11/25 for 140 (or whatever his stat line was tonite) in 2 of the last 3 weeks...

    it is my contention that even the elite qbs have bad games. i just think, as in any fan base, ur gonna have people with knee jerk reactions. i doubt we're going to see people let these pretty awful performances by brees and ryan redefine their level of play. eh i dunno i was just curious bc ive seen people literally state that "the great qbs simply do not have performances like eli has on bad days" and its just so completely untrue its ridiculous. i mean peyton manning had a 3 game stretch of like 12 ints (4x a game 3 games in a row) the final PLAYING year at Indy...maybe brady is the exception to the rule and doesnt really slump as much as have a bad game here n there, but even he has had stretches where he didnt play anywheres near his capability.

    and performances like tonight for brees really isnt anything new, he has a game or 2 like this a season. Im curious to see if Simms discusses the "elite" issue with brees performance...
    One thing I noticed other than the 4 int were his throws just seemed to be off sometimes, he gunned it on a check down pass to the rb, who dropped the pass, was high on several throws, and had that one hopper that bounced off the ground a few yards in front of his open wr. Like I said earlier all qb make those types of throws sometimes.

  3. #1403
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Don't get me wrong Dline, I'm not discounting everything Eli has done for us. 2007's SB win ranks right up there with the greatest days of my life.

    I'm simply giving my reason why (at present) I don't consider Eli one of the greatest of all time or "elite" as everyone likes to call it, which I believe is what Simms was talking about.

    I do think Eli is among the best during his era. That I agree with. He's in my top 4 or 5, but I don't see how you can ignore his recent slump and claim you're being objective. Granted, as defending world champs most people would be willing to cut their best players slack, but when it comes down to asking if he's amongst the very best, I think we need to look at it critically not give him a pass simply because of past accomplishments.
    I think what you need to realize is that you see Eli play every week, so you see all of the good and the bad (and the bad naturally sticks in our minds).

    If you watch any QB week to week, you'll see bad throws, apathetic play, head scratching decisions and so forth.

    P.S. - You're insane about Simms ... there's a reason fans wanted to get rid of him even after the 86 season. His best asset was that he was consistent but his level of consistency was fairly mediocre.
    Last edited by Kruunch; 11-30-2012 at 07:57 AM.

  4. #1404
    Im sure Phil does not consider himself one of the Elites of his era either..... I don't think his comments were meant to come across negatively.

  5. #1405
    Quote Originally Posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
    Im sure Phil does not consider himself one of the Elites of his era either..... I don't think his comments were meant to come across negatively.
    Phil is more bitter than Harry Carson was about not getting into the HoF.

    Phil has a very high opinion of himself. Just ask him.

  6. #1406
    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    Phil is more bitter than Harry Carson was about not getting into the HoF.

    Phil has a very high opinion of himself. Just ask him.
    Well, he probably had a hard time swallowing that bitter pill Sunday when Eli passed him up with #200..... lol

  7. #1407
    Quote Originally Posted by rebelfan1966 View Post
    Well, he probably had a hard time swallowing that bitter pill Sunday when Eli passed him up with #200..... lol
    And there's that.

    No sportsman, no matter how gracious, in his heart of hearts likes to see his records surpassed.

    Just ask the 72' Miami Dolphins team, many of whom still get together every year and throw a party when the last unbeaten team loses.

  8. #1408
    If Eli is not elite by virtue of completely screwing up a game (in this case vs CIN), then Rodgers and Brees aren't elite either... Rodgers laid an egg vs us, and I don't need to bring up what Brees just did.

  9. #1409
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    I think what you need to realize is that you see Eli play every week, so you see all of the good and the bad (and the bad naturally sticks in our minds).

    If you watch any QB week to week, you'll see bad throws, apathetic play, head scratching decisions and so forth.

    P.S. - You're insane about Simms ... there's a reason fans wanted to get rid of him even after the 86 season. His best asset was that he was consistent but his level of consistency was fairly mediocre.
    I understand perfectly that Eli is human and makes mistakes just like any other quarterback. What I'm pointing out are passing issues that are atypical of a great QB.

    As for Simms career, if you're calling me insane, what do you call Wellington Mara (who's lived his entire life on the football field) and the Giants organization for retiring his jersey? Sorry, but every player and coach that played with him and against him has very high regards for him as a player. I trust these guys and my own eyes over a bunch of clueless fans that would cheer a guy when he's hurt.

    I used argue with a couple of guys (prior to 86) about Simms. They would blame him for all our struggles, telling me he was a bum and that he'd NEVER win the big game. Well, after he got done killing it in the big game, they reluctantly had to shut up. The only fans that could have possibly wanted Phil gone after 86 had to be similar fans to these two guys. Someone who thought they knew what they were talking about but didn't.
    Last edited by Roosevelt; 11-30-2012 at 11:12 AM.
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  10. #1410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    I have DirectI understand perfectly that Eli is human and makes mistakes just like any other quarterback. What I'm pointing out are passing issues that are atypical of a great QB.

    As for Simms career, if you're calling me insane, what do you call Wellington Mara (who's lived his entire life on the football field) and the Giants organization for retiring his jersey? Sorry, but every player and coach that played with him and against him has very high regards for him as a player. I trust these guys and my own eyes over a bunch of clueless fans that would cheer a guy when he's hurt.

    I used argue with a couple of guys (prior to 86) about Simms. They would blame him for all our struggles, telling me he was a bum and that he'd NEVER win the big game. Well, after he got done killing it in the big game, they reluctantly had to shut up. The only fans that could have possibly wanted Phil gone after 86 had to be similar fans to these two guys. Someone who thought they knew what they were talking about but didn't.

    I think one of the things that we are all kind of skipping over is that becoming great/elite/whatever you want to call it, is a progression. Simms had great games and bad games, Eli has had great games and bad games, all the great qbs have great games and bad games. I agree to say Eli is one of the best qbs to ever play the game is premature, it really is impossible to judge that until we have a complete body of work to look at. To say he is on his way, in my opinion, is a fair statement, but again, that's my opinion, not everyone has to agree with that. I think to say the passing issues are atypical of a great qb is a bit misleading, yes Eli sometimes can be off target, but so can everyone, Bree's did many of the things last night that you mentioned about Eli, throwing a bullet pass on a check down to the rb, one hopping an open wr, ect. As for myself being biased, you might be correct about that, but I have no problem pointing out faults in Eli, I just think that the positive far out ways the negative.

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