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  1. #921
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBGiantsFan View Post
    Not sure how to respond to your sardonic post or your reference to railcars (Holocaust) which I find offensive, other than to say that as fans, our expectations from previously great players is to show some loyalty to their team. He was honest, sure, and his honestly felt like a slight. Amani Toomer was honest when he said he through Romo was a better QB than Eli, and it felt like a slight. I'm not saying we should muzzle Simms, simply that his comment was a slight to Eli, and based on Eli's accomplishments, unjust.
    Phil said he believed Eli was HOF'er, but not amongst the elite because he cannot win games on his own.

    Maybe somebody who took offense to Phil's comments can explain how calling Eli a HOF'er is slighting him.

    This idea that Phil needs to call Eli one of the greatest QB's of all-time or he's taking a shot at him and the Giants is just ridiculous.

    Eli has his moments, but he's definitely not amongst the greatest QB's that I've seen play.
    Last edited by Roosevelt; 11-26-2012 at 01:12 PM.
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  2. #922
    All-Pro Roosevelt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBGiantsFan View Post
    I think the misunderstanding here is, the fans are not upset by random commentators saying Eli is not elite, the fans are upset that it's a New York Giant great saying it. Simms matters to us, and we expect him to be like us, loyal to his team. Now, obviously he doesn't have to be, but the real slight is not that someone said Eli is not elite, it's that Simms said it. As fans, we expect more from our Ex players. His timing is also such that he says it when Eli is having a down few games. I didn't hear him say that at the beginning of the season.
    Opinions vary, especially when a player's game is up and down.
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  3. #923
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Phil said he believed Eli was HOF'er, but just amongst the elite because he cannot win games on his own.

    Maybe somebody he took offense to Phil's comments can explain how calling Eli a HOF'er is slighting him.

    This idea that Phil needs to call Eli one of the greatest QB's of all-time or he's taking a shot at him and the Giants is just ridiculous.

    Eli has his moments, but he's definitely not amongst the greatest QB's that I've seen play.
    It's hard to understand how Simms can call Eli a HoFer yet say he's not elite. It's almost like a backhanded complement.

    "I guess he'll make the hall of fame because his team was so good around him and they made his stats look good, but he wouldn't get there himself."

    If you're a a hall of famer, you're elite IMO.

  4. #924
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliDaMANning View Post
    Good points. Saying Simms is better used to be an opinion. Now it is just a flat out incorrect statement.

    Saying Danny Kennell was a better QB than Simms is also an opinion.
    So your view is based on a bunch of stats. I disagree with that standard.
    The eras (and rules) are very different. Its my view that IF Phil had the kind of support from the coaching staff, IF he didn't play in a time where a defender could take two steps after a pass was thrown and try to kill the QB, IF Phi played where the receivers couldn't be breathed on after 5 yards, IF Phil played in a pass first offense...he would have put up legendary numbers.
    But of course we will never know this. All we can do is consider all the qualities of each player and try to apply them in some kind of even comparison, which is near impossible. No QB (except probably David Carr) was hit more often and harder than Phil Simms over an entire career. And to have the kind of career that he did considering everything he overcame, is historic. Absolutely historic.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  5. #925
    Quote Originally Posted by Roosevelt View Post
    Opinions vary, especially when a player's game is up and down.
    I agree, but I would rather hear Simms or anyone else say that about Eli when things are going well too. I guess like fans, commentators are fickle and say things spur of the moment as well. Give Eli 3 weeks like yesterday, would Simms change his mind?

  6. #926
    Quote Originally Posted by GameTime View Post
    dont even mention Tiki and Simms in that regard in the same breath....
    way off base there.....
    Tiki said Eli was not a leader.
    Simms said Eli was not Elite.

    Don't seem that much different.

  7. #927
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBGiantsFan View Post
    I think the misunderstanding here is, the fans are not upset by random commentators saying Eli is not elite, the fans are upset that it's a New York Giant great saying it. Simms matters to us, and we expect him to be like us, loyal to his team. Now, obviously he doesn't have to be, but the real slight is not that someone said Eli is not elite, it's that Simms said it. As fans, we expect more from our Ex players. His timing is also such that he says it when Eli is having a down few games. I didn't hear him say that at the beginning of the season.
    No one is more loyal to the New York Giants than me and I don't think Eli is "elite". (whatever that is)
    I think he's an outstanding player who is very inconsistent.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #928
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimaniac View Post
    Tiki said Eli was not a leader.
    Simms said Eli was not Elite.

    Don't seem that much different.
    You're being ridiculous.
    If you can't see the difference between Tiki's slam and Phil's comments then we are wasting our time talking about it.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  9. #929
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    So your view is based on a bunch of stats. I disagree with that standard.
    The eras (and rules) are very different. Its my view that IF Phil had the kind of support from the coaching staff, IF he didn't play in a time where a defender could take two steps after a pass was thrown and try to kill the QB, IF Phi played where the receivers couldn't be breathed on after 5 yards, IF Phil played in a pass first offense...he would have put up legendary numbers.
    But of course we will never know this. All we can do is consider all the qualities of each player and try to apply them in some kind of even comparison, which is near impossible. No QB (except probably David Carr) was hit more often and harder than Phil Simms over an entire career. And to have the kind of career that he did considering everything he overcame, is historic. Absolutely historic.
    Stop talking about rules and regulations all the time. There were QB in his time that threw for much better numbers also.

    He had an excellent coach while Eli works with an incompetant OC. All I read in your post were a bunch of "IFS." Get over it dude. Nobody is dissing Simms here, we are just clearly stating the facts. There is no argument for Simms being better than Eli, only a bunch of what if scenarios you presented.

  10. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    So your view is based on a bunch of stats. I disagree with that standard.
    The eras (and rules) are very different. Its my view that IF Phil had the kind of support from the coaching staff, IF he didn't play in a time where a defender could take two steps after a pass was thrown and try to kill the QB, IF Phi played where the receivers couldn't be breathed on after 5 yards, IF Phil played in a pass first offense...he would have put up legendary numbers.
    But of course we will never know this. All we can do is consider all the qualities of each player and try to apply them in some kind of even comparison, which is near impossible. No QB (except probably David Carr) was hit more often and harder than Phil Simms over an entire career. And to have the kind of career that he did considering everything he overcame, is historic. Absolutely historic.
    My view is supported by a bunch of stats not made by it, I watched Simms play and Eli play and in my opinion Eli is the superior player. Your one and only point is always about the different era to back up your claim. If you use that logic, it is basically saying that the game has changed so much that comparisons can only be made to strengthen your argument, ie you can not compare Simms to Manning because it is a different time. What if Manning played during the time Simms did, do you think he would have preformed worse than Simms? Eli played in a run first offense for many years, and your statement about comparing the qualities of the players is spot on. Compare the fact that an assistant coach had to convince Simms to put more time in learning the offense and the audibles to Manning being a film room and preparation junky and I think that speaks volumes about some of their qualities. Is the only reason you think Simms is better because he played with different rules at a different time?
    Last edited by Dline83; 11-26-2012 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Including quote

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