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Thread: Are the Giants issues a byproduct of their success?

  1. #1
    All-Pro joemorrisforprez's Avatar
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    Are the Giants issues a byproduct of their success?

    I'm saying this as a big fan of Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin.

    So much of this team's success is predicated on Eli being great every week. And usually, that's enough. His record speaks for itself.....the dude is clutch. But, he's human, too.

    Our run game is complimentary....it's used primarily to set up the pass. The running back position is now essentially a blocker that might sometimes run. The most important attribute of the running back is how well he can pass protect, not his ability to run with the ball.

    3rd and short is now a passing down. On 4th and short inside the opponent's 40, we punt because we can't pick up short yardage.

    Our defense is built to pressure the passer, assuming a shootout with Eli.....the multi-purpose strengths of linebackers have been de-emphasized in favor of pass rushers who can harass the opposing QB.

    Basically, this entire team revolves around Eli Manning. And when he is on, the offense is basically unstoppable.

    But when he is off, or even average, the Giants struggle. They no longer have a running game that can choke out an opponent. A good example was the Steeler game. A 10 point 4th quarter lead turned to vapor because on offense, they couldn't control time of possession with their running game, and the defense was soft.

    And when he has a bad game, it's pretty much lights out. This team no longer has a defense that can overcome Eli's turnovers......last week was a great example. A solid defense would hold Cincy to FG's, not touchdowns.

    I don't want to turn this into another 50 page Simms v. Eli thread, but one of the biggest differences between the 2 QB's is the amount of pressure Eli has to be great every game. And a huge part of that is due to the fact that Simms had a running game and a defense that bailed him out on a regular basis.

    That's what is holding this team back from being a "dynasty".....when I look at dynasty QBs - Brady, Aikman, Montana, Bradshaw - they all had a defense and a running game.

    The Giants don't......and that's why they will always be a 9-7 to 10-6 team that will need to hope they get hot at the right moment to win it.
    Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 11-15-2012 at 12:07 PM.
    “Losers assemble in little groups and complain about the coaches and the players in other little groups, but winners assemble as a team,”

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  2. #2
    Answering your thread question - when winning 2 superbowls in five seasons, maybe the "needs" seem less alarming.

    I think the high water mark for this O-line was in 2008, we could just smash the opponents d-line and make canyons for the rb's to run through. I read somewhere that the Giants havent drafted an o-line man in one of the first 3 rounds since 2005.
    Last few avatars: Nicks, Bradshaw, Jacobs - who's the next future ex-Giant

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    Veteran EnragedYouth85's Avatar
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    I would have to agree with you, our teams success favors heavily on Eli's success. If we go up by a few scores, teams tend to abandon the run and go more to passing situations, which in turn allows our "Pass Rush" to just attack the QB. We really don't have a running game as you stated so it's hard for us to hold onto leads and that's evident this year. Also, our defense has a hard time stopping opposing offenses which is extremely bad when we are not scoring any points on offense..

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    All-Pro joemorrisforprez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnragedYouth85 View Post
    I would have to agree with you, our teams success favors heavily on Eli's success. If we go up by a few scores, teams tend to abandon the run and go more to passing situations, which in turn allows our "Pass Rush" to just attack the QB. We really don't have a running game as you stated so it's hard for us to hold onto leads and that's evident this year. Also, our defense has a hard time stopping opposing offenses which is extremely bad when we are not scoring any points on offense..
    Yeah.....I understand the desire to "surround Eli with weapons".......and guys like Nicks have really paid off.

    But I wonder if the organization has been too dependent on Eli, at the expense of forming a balanced team.

    For example, compare the 49ers to the Giants......if each team lost their starting QB, who would have the best chance to keep winning?

    I'd say it would be the 49ers.....because their offensive line and linebacking corps are superior......if the QB is the brains, the offensive line is the backbone. And on defense, a linebacker is so much more versatile than a defensive end.......a LB can rush the passer, shut down the running game, cover a tight end, etc.

    I understand alot of the draft is luck of the draw.....you take the highest ranked guy available, and hope he works out......but the Giants really need to address the offensive line next year, early in the draft. The same goes for linebacker....no more bargain bin shopping.
    Last edited by joemorrisforprez; 11-15-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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    Veteran EnragedYouth85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joemorrisforprez View Post
    Yeah.....I understand the desire to "surround Eli with weapons".......and guys like Nicks have really paid off.

    But I wonder if the organization has been too dependent on Eli, at the expense of forming a balanced team.

    For example, compare the 49ers to the Giants......if each team lost their starting QB, who would have the best chance to keep winning?

    I'd say it would be the 49ers.....because their offensive line and linebacking corps are superior......if the QB is the brains, the offensive line is the backbone. And on defense, a linebacker is so much more versatile than a defensive end.......a LB can rush the passer, shut down the running game, cover a tight end, etc.

    I understand alot of the draft is luck of the draw.....you take the highest ranked guy available, and hope he works out......but the Giants really need to address the offensive line next year, early in the draft. The same goes for linebacker....no more bargain bin shopping.
    I agree, out team would look horrible if Eli wasn't starting. He does some bone headed things sometimes but I feel that's because he's trying to carry the team on his shoulders when he shouldn't have to. I believe as soon as Bradshaw fumbled that ball on the drive that would of made it a game, Eli was like, well **** man! I guess I have to do this alone and thats when it all went down hil...

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    You could also say that this was a 9-7 team that got hot at the right time last year. They where in need of improvement even though they won the Super Bowl.

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    Veteran CowboysSuck's Avatar
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    I believe this team is so used to this second half lull, they've almost come to accept it...embrace it....and even pursue it.

    How this seasons lull will play out is still up for the taking.

    We shall see. All we can do is hope for the best

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    All-Pro joemorrisforprez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnragedYouth85 View Post
    I agree, out team would look horrible if Eli wasn't starting. He does some bone headed things sometimes but I feel that's because he's trying to carry the team on his shoulders when he shouldn't have to. I believe as soon as Bradshaw fumbled that ball on the drive that would of made it a game, Eli was like, well **** man! I guess I have to do this alone and thats when it all went down hil...
    I agree....and it shouldn't be that way.

    Another example was the Philly loss.....1st down on the 26 yard line.....at that point, there was no reason to assume Eli had to win the game......it should have shifted to the running game and kicking game......instead, a questionable decision to put the ball in the air that resulted in a penalty and eventual missed kick.

    That Philly game is the sort of scenario that a balanced team would win.
    “Losers assemble in little groups and complain about the coaches and the players in other little groups, but winners assemble as a team,”

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    All-Pro joemorrisforprez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy333 View Post
    You could also say that this was a 9-7 team that got hot at the right time last year. They where in need of improvement even though they won the Super Bowl.
    I would agree.....this year's team is playing very much like last year's team. Obviously, things could be a hell of a lot worse.....we could be Eagles fans.

    I just feel like this team really has the potential to become a powerhouse.....but when your system is so QB-dependent, I'm just not sure if you can get there.
    “Losers assemble in little groups and complain about the coaches and the players in other little groups, but winners assemble as a team,”

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    All-Pro joemorrisforprez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboysSuck View Post
    I believe this team is so used to this second half lull, they've almost come to accept it...embrace it....and even pursue it.

    How this seasons lull will play out is still up for the taking.

    We shall see. All we can do is hope for the best
    This is a dangerous road to walk every year.
    “Losers assemble in little groups and complain about the coaches and the players in other little groups, but winners assemble as a team,”

    - Emlen Tunnell

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