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  1. #101

    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    [quote user="Harooni"][quote user="ManningBowl"]


    This is what you fail to realize.. All Qb play diffrently and thats what make some better then others.. Some Qb's see the field better then others, some Qb's anticipate better then others.. Qb's like Big Ben can scramble and throw accurately on the move which allows Wr's to uncover downfield..Some Qb's can stick the ball into tight windows and throw accurately downfield... Eli lacks alot of these qualities so that is why a majority of football fans consider him a average Qb




    [/quote]

    this is very true manningbowl, two things i think Eli can do better is read a defense and get rid of the ball quicker.
    [/quote]




    I've always said it that Eli doesn't see the field as well as other Qb's..At times he'llthrow a ball into coverage and at times he likes to stare down one reciever and then force it in the there. Another thing is Eli is just not a very accurate downfield passer.. Anything beyond 20+ yards and the reciever has to adjust.. He just can't consistently make the stick throw into a tight window.




    Another thing people forget is that Ben has a terrible O-line who can't block anybody.. They were getting whipped by the Cards D-line..


  2. #102
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    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    [quote user="lawl"][quote user="Hampton27 missed"][quote user="lawl"][quote user="Hampton27 missed"]


    [quote user="Harooni"][quote user="Mua Dib"][quote user="Harooni"][quote user="Bumm"]Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.[/quote]
    checkmate!!
    [/quote]what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.[/quote]
    i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
    [/quote]




    Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.




    [/quote]

    but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

    for example,

    Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

    I hope you see what im saying.
    [/quote]




    I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.




    I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.




    [/quote]

    nah ive never gone on the record and said eli cant do well without plax, i was one of the idiots that thought hixon would step in and do just fine, obviously not exactly the case. The way plax plays is quite unique and theres no receiver in the league thats any where near the type that he is. Mind you im not saying hes the best wr in the league just very different.
    [/quote] Yeah, lawl same here The last three or four games I kept hoping Hixon would break out it just didn't happen. I agree aboutPlax also there is something about him when you watch him, deceptive comes to mind, long stride, tall a bit of a sleeper maybe. Hey, the best had a hard time covering him.

  3. #103
    Hall of Famer Harooni's Avatar
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    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    [quote user="GiantsNASTAY"]Anyone who thinks Eli is all around better then Ben is a fool.[/quote]

    well there is a lot here. maybe not so much dumb as they are blinded by their love for Eli.

  4. #104
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    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    [quote user="Hampton27 missed"][quote user="lawl"][quote user="Hampton27 missed"][quote user="lawl"][quote user="Hampton27 missed"][quote user="lawl"][quote user="Hampton27 missed"]


    [quote user="Harooni"][quote user="Mua Dib"][quote user="Harooni"][quote user="Bumm"]Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.[/quote]
    checkmate!!
    [/quote]what exactly is it you as a Giants fan arewinning here rooni? Did Eli retire? Nothing been decided.[/quote]
    i'm not winning anything, he made a valid point. a point that imo ends the discussion. Plax counts for 40percent of Eli's career Td's. 6 games without plax 3 td's for eli. there was a huge drop, one can only conclude that Plax's freakish abilty was the key to Eli's success. it doesn't mean i love the steelers now. i can't name you their starting oline. i will always love the giants as long as I live,but i'm not blind.
    [/quote]




    Plax only caught 4 of Eli's 21 TDs this year.




    [/quote]

    but you do have to take into account that because plax is on the field it leaves the other WRs in single coverage on the lesser DBs...

    for example,

    Tonight Hines didnt do crap really all game except for 1 catch, but the cardinals were set on shutting him down and because of that it opened up things for holmes.

    I hope you see what im saying.
    [/quote]




    I understand but the comment made was Eli can't play without plax. He played wellagainst Seattle, Cardinals, Pittsburgh and even Carolina.




    I really think a lot of you guys try to make something out of nothing. In our last 5 games, Minnesota meant nothing, 2 games were very windy when our opponents defense didn't really have to worry about the pass, and 1 game when the o-line played horrible.







    [/quote]

    nah ive never gone on the record and said eli cant do well without plax, i was one of the idiots that thought hixon would step in and do just fine, obviously not exactly the case. The way plax plays is quite unique and theres no receiver in the league thats any where near the type that he is. Mind you im not saying hes the best wr in the league just very different.
    [/quote]




    I thought Hixon was gonna step up too. We definately lose something without Plax, but I wouldn't put too much into any of those last 5 games for the reasons I mentioned.




    In those games against Philly, they wouldn't have worried about the pass with or without Plax. You can't make a judgement off the Cowboys game because Eli nor the WRs had time to do anything. Minnesota game meant nothing to the Giants but to stay healthy.




    It's up to the coaches to make adjustments in games like the ones we played against Philly and the Giants need to bring back the screen pass.




    [/quote]

    Thats not true at all about the philly games. The first time we played them they doubled plax in some shape or form over 70% of the time, with hixon they doubled him under 15% of the time, which allowed them to commit another player to the run. If they did that **** to plax he wouldve abused them all day, bad winds or not, Hixon wasnt able to.
    [/quote]




    The first game in Philly didn't have 25+ MPH winds.




    The defenses havethe huge advantage in games with thoses winds. They don't have to worry about a long pass and it shortens the field for them. In games like that they only need to worry about the short stuff and I don't care if Jerry Rice was playing in the game.

    [/quote]

    Yea, sorry but if they didnt double Plax he wouldve made them pay in that game by beating the jam on slants, and like you've said before, eli has had good games in the wind before....

  5. #105

    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    [quote user="ManningBowl"][quote user="jgrangers2"][quote user="gumby742"][quote user="jgrangers2"]


    [quote user="Harooni"][quote user="Bumm"]Ben wins without Plax. Eli doesn't. Nuff said.[/quote]
    checkmate!!
    [/quote]




    This may be the dumbest point of them all. Ben has two very good receivers in Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. When Plax went down our receivers became a very mediocre bunch. Tonight, Ben was very good, but I thought that the Steeler playcalling really helped him. Of his 21 completions, how many were little screen passes or to guys who were absolutely wide open? When was the last time you saw a Giant receiver as open as Hines Ward was on that first completion of the night? There was nobody within a 10 yard radius of him.




    [/quote]

    Seriously how do you know that WRs haven't been getting open? Do you have the sky cam for the entire game? Do you attend all the games? There's little possible way that anyone can say that our WRs get no seperation with any sort of certainty. And at what point to you give Eli the pass where maybe he's just trying to get the ball to the wrong receiver and missing the wide open guy? Again, we'll never know because we can't see the entire field every play.
    [/quote]




    Because I think it's reasonable to give Eli, or any NFL QB for that matter,the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to believe that there are wide receivers that are getting wide open all the time and Eli just keeps missing them.




    [/quote]




    This is what you fail to realize.. All Qb play diffrently and thats what make some better then others.. Some Qb's see the field better then others, some Qb's anticipate better then others.. Qb's like Big Ben can scramble and throw accurately on the move which allows Wr's to uncover downfield..Some Qb's can stick the ball into tight windows and throw accurately downfield... Eli lacks alot of these qualities so that is why a majority of football fans consider him a average Qb




    [/quote]




    The one thing that Ben has clearly on Eli is his mobility, which allows his receivers to uncover. That said, if you watched the game today, you should've seen a very notable difference between the Steelers and the Giants. How many screen passes and dump offs did Roethlisberger throw? I counted at least 5 or 6. Without Plax, our receivers become mediocre, especially when you consider that we don't have a reliable safety valve. You guys like to treat Eli as if he misses open receivers all over the place, but today I saw Ben underthrow a couple of wide open players. I also know you guys LOVE to point out that Asante Samuel almost pick from last year, but I'm sure you'll gladly ignore the pass that Dominique Rogers-Cromartie should've picked off when Ben underthrew a wide open Nate Washington.


  6. #106

    Re: Ben is better than Eli



    It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down. Plax did in a big way. Antonio Pierce did by showing up out of shape. Toomer did by throwing the team under the bus in an interview. Jacobs did but not on purpose....his injuries cost us though. I love our team but we had too many players seeking out the spot light this year and believing their own hype. You may see that on the Steelers now but you didn't before the game today. They humbled themselves behind Ben, who is good but not great, and because they had faith in the system they got the job done.




    I love Eli and his skills are right there with Ben's. They do different things at the position. Eli is more accurate and has a better arm. Ben is a master at avoiding pressure. They are both cool under pressure and don't let mistakes ruin their day. One on one it is pretty close but in a sport where the man at that particular position will shoulder all the blame and get all the credit whether they deserve it or not I have to give the edge to Big Ben. It's all about the hardware as we remind Eagle fans eeryday.....Ben 2 Eli 1. The competition is far from over. Until next year


  7. #107

    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    Lawl, I'm going by what will be the toughest to do in those conditions. Sure the Giants and Plax may make a play to burn the other team (Hixon almost burned them) but the chances are much less. As a DC, you go withyour best chances. In 25 MPH winds, the DC will play the short field, they will NOT keep their safeties back. They will focus on the running game no matter.

  8. #108
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    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    I think theres even quotes of Jim johnson saying he changed the gameplan because plax wasnt going to be in....

  9. #109
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    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    Let me put this to rest. Ben has two Super Bowl Championships. With that in mind he has zero Super Bowl MVP's. What does that say? He shows up but isn't the best at the game nor does he play the best at the end. He is good and has a great D behind him, but the real star was Holmes. Eli can win games but apparently cannot play in the wind. I don't know but I would say as of right now its Ben 2 and Eli one. We measure greatness based on championships, so for now Ben has the advantage.

  10. #110
    Hall of Famer Harooni's Avatar
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    Re: Ben is better than Eli

    [quote user="NewYorkDave"]

    It is a good debate but until Eli can brin home another won Big Ben will win it every time. Ben had a better team around him this year. Some of Eli's mainmates sort of let him down.

    [/quote]
    sorry Eli had the #1 rushing attack, #3 defense and a very good Oline. this nonesense that pitts and sandaigo have better teams around there QB is pure bs and a slap in the face to the rest of our good team.

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