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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    Apart from JPP which De on this team is a dominant pass rusher that will be here next season?
    I think Kiwi can fit the bill if need be.
    Tuck is declining I know and people have figured out just run the ball to Osi's side. What I am saying Is, if our corners would hold their coverages then we get more coverage sacks/pressure rather than relying on the straight line speed or overwhelming power of our DE's. I agree a good pass rush is the key to victory, but mediocre LBs or a poor secondary plays into the D-Line's woes as well.

    I just don't know if a DE in the first round is the best option with the other needs we have.

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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rainierjef View Post
    Just a Question Red. Do you have any hope in Ojomo/Tracy to step up or is DE an absolute need in he draft. I think DT is a major priority.
    i think the best they could be is Tollefson

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by rainierjef View Post
    Just a Question Red. Do you have any hope in Ojomo/Tracy to step up or is DE an absolute need in he draft. I think DT is a major priority.
    i think the best they could be is a Tollefson type. DT is a need as well because Austin busted. i do like Kuhn and Hendricks as back ups though

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by rainierjef View Post
    I think Kiwi can fit the bill if need be.
    Tuck is declining I know and people have figured out just run the ball to Osi's side. What I am saying Is, if our corners would hold their coverages then we get more coverage sacks/pressure rather than relying on the straight line speed or overwhelming power of our DE's. I agree a good pass rush is the key to victory, but mediocre LBs or a poor secondary plays into the D-Line's woes as well.

    I just don't know if a DE in the first round is the best option with the other needs we have.
    Kiwi is not an elite pass rusher. U put another DE on the other side of JPP u will see how quickly everything falls into place. Tuck provides nothing in terms of pass rush. The Giants have proved this formula works dont see why they should change it

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redeyejedi View Post
    Kiwi is not an elite pass rusher. U put another DE on the other side of JPP u will see how quickly everything falls into place. Tuck provides nothing in terms of pass rush. The Giants have proved this formula works dont see why they should change it
    Ur completely correct.. I mock guys who are not DE's, but i'd put guys like Ez Ansah and Alex Okafor at the top of the wish list, just thinking about our 2 titles and that philosophy of rushing the passer.. We really do need to get a young stud opposite JPP, so we don't waste these prime yrs of his..

    The only way i'm gonna be happy not getting a DE in RD 1, is if theres incredible value or we plan on getting a Tank Carradine or someone like that in RD 2.. OSI is half of what he used to be as a pass rusher, and Tuck is spent as a pass rusher(only has moments now), and Tracy and Ojomo are probably only back end rotation guys...etc That said, we need another stout DE to pair with JPP, and sooner rather then later...

    I wouldent be against drafting a guy in the 1st or 2nd, and possibly grabbing another upside DE in the 4th-6th range, to try and groom also...

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    Ur completely correct.. I mock guys who are not DE's, but i'd put guys like Ez Ansah and Alex Okafor at the top of the wish list, just thinking about our 2 titles and that philosophy of rushing the passer.. We really do need to get a young stud opposite JPP, so we don't waste these prime yrs of his..

    The only way i'm gonna be happy not getting a DE in RD 1, is if theres incredible value or we plan on getting a Tank Carradine or someone like that in RD 2.. OSI is half of what he used to be as a pass rusher, and Tuck is spent as a pass rusher(only has moments now), and Tracy and Ojomo are probably only back end rotation guys...etc That said, we need another stout DE to pair with JPP, and sooner rather then later...

    I wouldent be against drafting a guy in the 1st or 2nd, and possibly grabbing another upside DE in the 4th-6th range, to try and groom also...
    Personally I think we need 2 defensive ends. 1 every down guy like an Okafor Ansah then maybe a edge rusher for 3rd downs as well.

  7. #17
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    Here's my thing! and I have been limited in my knowledege of the Pass rushers this upcoming draft, I plan on catching up in janurary when all the numbers are finalized and RED!!! chronological organizes the film on here
    Who is actually worth a bottom first grade? I would assume the top 5 are gone before 20. and thats
    1. Dion Jordan
    2. Bjoern Werner
    3. Sam Montgomery
    4. Alex Okafor
    5. Ezekiel Ansah
    So we were talking about Mingo and how limited his ceiling might be at the next level, you also have Carradine and Moore who to me are 2nd rounders.
    Whos worth that selection in the first at where we will be selecting?

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  8. #18
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Dion Jordan is a strange type of player. 6'7 and 240 pounds, he is extremely athletic, but is he a DE? Can he gain another 30 or so pounds and keep his athleticism?

    And is he even a capable consistent pass rusher? Hes a bit hit or miss now, but perhaps that is a development thing?


    Werner I think may be the true top DE in this class. Chris Long type prospect (not because hes white), but he is going to be average to good at the combine. But he does everything well on the field. Uses everything he has well, power, quickness, counter moves, plays the run well.

    Montgomery translates better as a 3-4 DE, he is not that much of a pure edge rusher, more technique and power, and he can probably put on enough weight to play at 285-290.

    Mingo is easily the best pure athlete in terms of explosion, the ability to change directions. But he is allergic to contact. He tries to run around OTs, once they get a hold of him he has absolutely nothing. Doesnt translate his burst into power at all. Perhaps a lot of that is coaching but then again, maybe not. But LSU doesnt seem to do a very good job of getting the most out of their DL. Brockers for instance is already a better player than he ever was at LSU. Mingo potentially has massive upside, but its just as easy to project him to never do anything. I would guess he would blow up the combine.

    Ansah I think may be the second best DE (in terms of being pro ready, at least). Hes 6'5 270, with room to grow, has a huge wingspan, was a former track guy. So he certainly has the measurables. He certainly converts his burst into power, and is fully capable of driving back a blocker (occasionally two) into the QB. To me, I dont see him bend around the corner and get under the OTs often, which I am honestly curious if he can improve upon. He does play high a lot which may factor in, but which college DL dont do that.

    Okafor I have not watched, I do not care for Texas, lol.


    I still very much like Lemonier, who reminds me a lot of a younger Osi, lighter weight guy, but very fast off the snap, and has a great motor. May never be a great all around DE, but as a pass rush specialist he could be invaluable, especially as a guy who can chase down some of the quicker QBs the giants have to deal with. I think he might be there for the giants in the 2nd if he declares.
    Last edited by slipknottin; 12-12-2012 at 04:44 PM.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    Dion Jordan is a strange type of player. 6'7 and 240 pounds, he is extremely athletic, but is he a DE? Can he gain another 30 or so pounds and keep his athleticism?

    And is he even a capable consistent pass rusher? Hes a bit hit or miss now, but perhaps that is a development thing?


    Werner I think may be the true top DE in this class. Chris Long type prospect (not because hes white), but he is going to be average to good at the combine. But he does everything well on the field. Uses everything he has well, power, quickness, counter moves, plays the run well.

    Montgomery translates better as a 3-4 DE, he is not that much of a pure edge rusher, more technique and power, and he can probably put on enough weight to play at 285-290.

    Mingo is easily the best pure athlete in terms of explosion, the ability to change directions. But he is allergic to contact. He tries to run around OTs, once they get a hold of him he has absolutely nothing. Doesnt translate his burst into power at all. Perhaps a lot of that is coaching but then again, maybe not. But LSU doesnt seem to do a very good job of getting the most out of their DL. Brockers for instance is already a better player than he ever was at LSU. Mingo potentially has massive upside, but its just as easy to project him to never do anything. I would guess he would blow up the combine.

    Ansah I think may be the second best DE (in terms of being pro ready, at least). Hes 6'5 270, with room to grow, has a huge wingspan, was a former track guy. So he certainly has the measurables. He certainly converts his burst into power, and is fully capable of driving back a blocker (occasionally two) into the QB. To me, I dont see him bend around the corner and get under the OTs often, which I am honestly curious if he can improve upon. He does play high a lot which may factor in, but which college DL dont do that.

    Okafor I have not watched, I do not care for Texas, lol.


    I still very much like Lemonier, who reminds me a lot of a younger Osi, lighter weight guy, but very fast off the snap, and has a great motor. May never be a great all around DE, but as a pass rush specialist he could be invaluable, especially as a guy who can chase down some of the quicker QBs the giants have to deal with. I think he might be there for the giants in the 2nd if he declares.
    I would agree with your assessment on all of this. Ansah to me is the most intriguing. Could be what Tuck was earlier in his career providing an inside pass rush on 3rd down.If u pair Ansah with JPP U would have long,Strong,physically powerful, and highly active DE's. U could even play some odd man fronts with them. I think if u got Ansah it would be a great idea to grab Lemonier as well. He would fit wonderfully as a 3rd down rusher . I hope the Giants are concerned as I am with the decline as Justin Tuck. Maybe they think they can get away with Kiwi at end but I really think waiting another year to add another End would be a huge mistake. I think u can get away 1 more year with Tuck so getting a guy in to learn the ropes now is really important

  10. #20
    All-Pro nycsportzfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redeyejedi View Post
    I would agree with your assessment on all of this. Ansah to me is the most intriguing. Could be what Tuck was earlier in his career providing an inside pass rush on 3rd down.If u pair Ansah with JPP U would have long,Strong,physically powerful, and highly active DE's. U could even play some odd man fronts with them. I think if u got Ansah it would be a great idea to grab Lemonier as well. He would fit wonderfully as a 3rd down rusher . I hope the Giants are concerned as I am with the decline as Justin Tuck. Maybe they think they can get away with Kiwi at end but I really think waiting another year to add another End would be a huge mistake. I think u can get away 1 more year with Tuck so getting a guy in to learn the ropes now is really important
    Ya, i saw a game earlier in the yr that turned me on to Lemonier, but since then, i've been less then impressed... I don't see a 240lb guy as a DE.. OSI looks tiny out there at 260-263 or whatever he is, and Lemonier has a ways to go to even get that big, and also has to keep his speed and athletic ability.. I'd pass on Lemonier as a 4/3 DE, all though i can see the intrigue..

    To be honest, i'd rather draft Ansah(were all in agreement here), and then go for a brandon jenkins in RD 3(trade up most likely).. Then take the 2nd rder we got, and get a young OT or G , or possibly a Saftey(good top heavy class), or a stud LB.. I like Brandon Jenkins as a 4/3 fit more then i do Lemonier, plus i think Lemonier ends up going in the earlish 2nd rd, before pick 15of RD 2... It'd cost alot to move up and get him.. If were moving up in the 3rd, it'd cost alot less... If Jenkins isn't there, then so be it, draft other positons, and search for antoher DE in other RD's, or take someone diffrent in RD 3 at DE..etc

    Ansah and JPP = Dynamic Duo.. They remind me of eachother in alot of ways...

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