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Thread: The Blame Game

  1. #1
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    The Blame Game

    So many fans have poured onto these pages in the last 24 hours - from the "casual fan" to the "die hard" to "the optimist" to "the skeptic" to "the realist." I have seen everything from support to begging for a players release to a cry that our season is over. So lets take a look and see what has value and what is reactionary silliness.

    "The season's over" -Fact - Giants win two more and they are in playoffs so this is just blatantly wrong - but ok lets look at it figuratively. If so how do you negate the past history - how do you ignore precedent? Especially when your team set it. How do you forget the most recent evidence there is - 2011. How do Giants fans forget the loss to Washington and what ensued there after? How do people forget the wild card packers only a year before - how do people forget the wild card steelers - how do people forget 2007. Yes they got blown out - yes they may lose out, but what a silly cry this is.

    "Cut Tuck" - Reactionary to say the least. But lets take a further look at 91. Justin was once an absolute dominant force with the ability to rush from the edge and the inside. Justin hasn't been that player for 2 years. Last year he turned it on when it counted the most but so far we really have't seen 91 able to do that this year. He has struggled on the outside in one on one with tackles but still has been a force inside when asked to rush from the middle. Behind him is probably Kiwi but the giants shuffle the line and the rotation is very useful in keeping guys fresh. While tuck just isnt the same and no longer lives up to his expected fan stardom it would also be wise to realize that Justin is still an above average player. I know thats tough to swallow or realize when he isn't living up to expectations but have you considered the fact that you have seen some of the greatest DE's in thhe last 20 years and that included JT? Perhaps you just don't realize that he still is a force in the broader nature of the position. He is no longer great (at times not even good) but he is not bad - he still gets a push, he still gets pressures and more importantly he is the best answer. He is still very much a leader and still can flash - but make no mistake the feared man on this line is number 90 no longer 91.

    "Coughlin is clueless" - To the fans opinion? Yes. He doesn't care nor should he. Giant fans and media have run this guy out of town so many times its tragically comical. He is a two time superbowl champion coach - maybe the best in Giants history and yet any turmoil and so many turn on him so fast. Perhaps the younger generation of Giants fans do not realize how astounding 07' on has been. I urge you to look at these teams in the last decade Redskins, Eagles, Cowboy, Bills, Bucs, Vikings, Bears, Niners, Seahawks, Falcons, Jets, Dolphins, Browns, Broncos, Texans, Titans, Ravens, Bengals - Im leaving a few out cause the list is long enough to realize just 1 ring is hard enough - BUT TWO - thank TC and the others who have put this org in a great place that includes......oh no here we go....

    "Kildrive sucks" - Umm in what world does a coordinator suck who boasts a top ten offense almost every year in his existence? I have the answer - one in which the fans can call his plays from the gun. If you think calling a shotgun draw makes Kevin Gilbride (who runs TC's offense) a poor coach your not understanding the x's and o's of football. The draw is one of the only ways to run from the gun - so if the giants run - guess what you have called the play. That doesn't make kevin a bad coach or predictable - in fact eli checks into many of those draws cause the defense is showing coverage and he is dealing with a 7 front or 6 - its just the right call. Beyond that Kevin is far from boring - except to say the giants DO NOT believe in trick plays. That doesn't make them boring - the philosophy is trick plays are for lesser offenses that can't beat you straight up and for different personel. This does not work with a pocket qb and the stats prove the giants don't need it. The proof is in the pudding fans -his offense is top ten and while we may think they are wildly inconsistent - he's actually been in the same spot for years - top ten.

    "Osi needs to go" - Most likely this is true. Most likely Osi is gone after the year. That said in the last few games Osi has been the most active end on the team. Yes he is an edge rusher with tremendous speed and yes he is not the most stout in his gaps, but make no mistake osi still has positive value. I would bet that 72 puts another stamp on the year before its done - the strip sack is an art form he has perfected over his career. Yes he has struggled when run at and at maintaining the edge (albeit against the fastest qb in our history) but again osi has shown positive value.

    "Wilson was a reach" - In way yes, in a way no - Wilson has shown he has first round talent when given the ball. He has burst that makes him a threat on most carries. He is a special teams nightmare for opposing teams and can be a factor in the passing game too. All first round qualities. He has also shown that he is very very raw in pass protection - not first round material at all (but something he will learn in time). He has proven he can follow his blockers but he needs to learn when its time to improvise and when you just need to hit it straight on. I believe wilson will prove out to be a first round talent for sure -but like most rookies there are bumps on the way.

    "Where's JPP" - Pushing a wall of two blockers and sometimes a back into the backfield. The word is out - you might get away with singling osi and tuck this year - but you will not ever when that battle against JPP - don't try it even once or you will pay. He's doing his job he needs some help.

    There is a lot more to talk about but i'm sure this will be enough for fans to chew on for now. Win 2 and you're in - 2007 2011 should be reminders that its a whole new dance once you get there. Oh and has anyone forgotten the ROAD WARRIORS?

    Bleed on Blue.

  2. #2
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
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    We are always inconsistent and cannot solve the same issues we've been having since week 5. We are much more talented then that but it does not show on a week to week basis. We only win the division if we win our next 2 games and the Redskins and Cowboys lose one, otherwise we don't win the division. We only get a wildcard if the Seahawks, Vikings, and Bears lose(Is that right?). We don't control our own destiny anymore
    Finalized divorce from Victor Michael Walker Cruz November 23rd, 2014. 9:16 PM.

  3. #3
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave56dj View Post
    So many fans have poured onto these pages in the last 24 hours - from the "casual fan" to the "die hard" to "the optimist" to "the skeptic" to "the realist." I have seen everything from support to begging for a players release to a cry that our season is over. So lets take a look and see what has value and what is reactionary silliness.

    "The season's over" -Fact - Giants win two more and they are in playoffs so this is just blatantly wrong - but ok lets look at it figuratively. If so how do you negate the past history - how do you ignore precedent? Especially when your team set it. How do you forget the most recent evidence there is - 2011. How do Giants fans forget the loss to Washington and what ensued there after? How do people forget the wild card packers only a year before - how do people forget the wild card steelers - how do people forget 2007. Yes they got blown out - yes they may lose out, but what a silly cry this is.

    "Cut Tuck" - Reactionary to say the least. But lets take a further look at 91. Justin was once an absolute dominant force with the ability to rush from the edge and the inside. Justin hasn't been that player for 2 years. Last year he turned it on when it counted the most but so far we really have't seen 91 able to do that this year. He has struggled on the outside in one on one with tackles but still has been a force inside when asked to rush from the middle. Behind him is probably Kiwi but the giants shuffle the line and the rotation is very useful in keeping guys fresh. While tuck just isnt the same and no longer lives up to his expected fan stardom it would also be wise to realize that Justin is still an above average player. I know thats tough to swallow or realize when he isn't living up to expectations but have you considered the fact that you have seen some of the greatest DE's in thhe last 20 years and that included JT? Perhaps you just don't realize that he still is a force in the broader nature of the position. He is no longer great (at times not even good) but he is not bad - he still gets a push, he still gets pressures and more importantly he is the best answer. He is still very much a leader and still can flash - but make no mistake the feared man on this line is number 90 no longer 91.

    "Coughlin is clueless" - To the fans opinion? Yes. He doesn't care nor should he. Giant fans and media have run this guy out of town so many times its tragically comical. He is a two time superbowl champion coach - maybe the best in Giants history and yet any turmoil and so many turn on him so fast. Perhaps the younger generation of Giants fans do not realize how astounding 07' on has been. I urge you to look at these teams in the last decade Redskins, Eagles, Cowboy, Bills, Bucs, Vikings, Bears, Niners, Seahawks, Falcons, Jets, Dolphins, Browns, Broncos, Texans, Titans, Ravens, Bengals - Im leaving a few out cause the list is long enough to realize just 1 ring is hard enough - BUT TWO - thank TC and the others who have put this org in a great place that includes......oh no here we go....

    "Kildrive sucks" - Umm in what world does a coordinator suck who boasts a top ten offense almost every year in his existence? I have the answer - one in which the fans can call his plays from the gun. If you think calling a shotgun draw makes Kevin Gilbride (who runs TC's offense) a poor coach your not understanding the x's and o's of football. The draw is one of the only ways to run from the gun - so if the giants run - guess what you have called the play. That doesn't make kevin a bad coach or predictable - in fact eli checks into many of those draws cause the defense is showing coverage and he is dealing with a 7 front or 6 - its just the right call. Beyond that Kevin is far from boring - except to say the giants DO NOT believe in trick plays. That doesn't make them boring - the philosophy is trick plays are for lesser offenses that can't beat you straight up and for different personel. This does not work with a pocket qb and the stats prove the giants don't need it. The proof is in the pudding fans -his offense is top ten and while we may think they are wildly inconsistent - he's actually been in the same spot for years - top ten.

    "Osi needs to go" - Most likely this is true. Most likely Osi is gone after the year. That said in the last few games Osi has been the most active end on the team. Yes he is an edge rusher with tremendous speed and yes he is not the most stout in his gaps, but make no mistake osi still has positive value. I would bet that 72 puts another stamp on the year before its done - the strip sack is an art form he has perfected over his career. Yes he has struggled when run at and at maintaining the edge (albeit against the fastest qb in our history) but again osi has shown positive value.

    "Wilson was a reach" - In way yes, in a way no - Wilson has shown he has first round talent when given the ball. He has burst that makes him a threat on most carries. He is a special teams nightmare for opposing teams and can be a factor in the passing game too. All first round qualities. He has also shown that he is very very raw in pass protection - not first round material at all (but something he will learn in time). He has proven he can follow his blockers but he needs to learn when its time to improvise and when you just need to hit it straight on. I believe wilson will prove out to be a first round talent for sure -but like most rookies there are bumps on the way.

    "Where's JPP" - Pushing a wall of two blockers and sometimes a back into the backfield. The word is out - you might get away with singling osi and tuck this year - but you will not ever when that battle against JPP - don't try it even once or you will pay. He's doing his job he needs some help.

    There is a lot more to talk about but i'm sure this will be enough for fans to chew on for now. Win 2 and you're in - 2007 2011 should be reminders that its a whole new dance once you get there. Oh and has anyone forgotten the ROAD WARRIORS?

    Bleed on Blue.
    to address just one of your points...Our history in this situation is mixed. We have risen from the ashes and won SB's, AND we have collapsed at the end of seasons and looked like we quite doing it.
    Which is it this year? Lets find out together. But lightening already struck twice in the same place. three times?........
    Get well soon 80.

  4. #4
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    An NFL spokesperson has confirmed if the giants win out they WILL be in the playoffs - Remember the skins and cowboys play each other - that is one factor.

    Morehead "the realist" - very true my friend very true. There is precedent for both - perhaps you see where i fit in the spectrum.
    Last edited by dave56dj; 12-17-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  5. #5
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave56dj View Post
    An NFL spokesperson has confirmed if the giants win out they WILL be in the playoffs - Remember the skins and cowboys play each other - that is one factor.

    Morehead "the realist" - very true my friend very true. There is precedent for both - perhaps you see where i fit in the spectrum.
    Yes they are in if they win out. they have bad tie breakers within our division due to the common opponents tie breaker. We have great tie breakers outside the division because our conference record is good.
    Get well soon 80.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    We are always inconsistent and cannot solve the same issues we've been having since week 5. We are much more talented then that but it does not show on a week to week basis. We only win the division if we win our next 2 games and the Redskins and Cowboys lose one, otherwise we don't win the division. We only get a wildcard if the Seahawks, Vikings, and Bears lose(Is that right?). We don't control our own destiny anymore
    This was explained in another thread... we have tiebreakers on Vikings and Bears. Skins and Boys will lose at least one game between them, meaning if we win out we WILL be ahead of one of those two outright. Assuming the other wins the division, that means that, if we beat baltimore and philly, worst case scenario is winner of dallas/washington at 4th, seattle at 5th, giants at 6th. Also Seattle has the Niners coming up, who just beat the pats. A loss could very well happen for them.

    What I for one wouldn't mind is having us in 5th playing dallas at 4th. We already know that we can win in the Jerrahdome.

    If Seattle is in 6th seed and can upset the packers, we'd get SF in the divisional round, and we know we can win at the stick (although Kappa Kappa Alpha has progressed a bit since our last visit, we did shut him down as well when he played).

    Finally, if seattle can somehow beat atlanta, we'd host them for the title game. Yeah that's a bit farfetched having all the division leaders lose, but it's our best chance since we sure as hell can't beat atlanta in the georgiadome...

    Thank you Reddit for the best gif ever.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    We are always inconsistent and cannot solve the same issues we've been having since week 5. We are much more talented then that but it does not show on a week to week basis. We only win the division if we win our next 2 games and the Redskins and Cowboys lose one, otherwise we don't win the division. We only get a wildcard if the Seahawks, Vikings, and Bears lose(Is that right?). We don't control our own destiny anymore
    Utterly incorrect. Giants win out they are in no matter what.
    Over 5500 posts, advanced member, joined March 2002. 1st post (as anonymous) was the day after Super Bowl 35

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