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  1. #1

    OC and DC not whole problem...

    while i question gilbride at times its not entirely his fault. the pass offense this year hasn't been the same because of an unheathly nicks but also no manningham as well. in order for this pass offense to work at this time of the year you need three reliable wrs playing and knowing the concepts and not plug in players (eg:barden/randle/jernigan) not knowing the system. hopefully randle becomes that guy next year but look what happened after 08. nicks/mario/steve looked great after 8 games but issues popped up at the 2nd half of the year where mario and nicks weren't on the same page as eli. it took the core three a good two years to fully grasp the concepts which you hear a lot from gilbride. well what about cruz in 11, technically it was his first full year as a starter? yes, but he was with the team the year before and that time spent with eli during the lock out helped accelerating his learning curve or he could just be smart guy.

    the OL has been an issue that we've been talking about for the past two to three years. it doesn't matter if nicks and cruz are at 100% and randle becomes the next mario, if eli doesn't have time for routes to develop and find the open receiver it doesn't matter because he will be off target or get sacked.

    also the team changed after the brown injury and hasn't been the same. i think if brown stayed heathy we wouldn't be where we are right now. brown not only got yards after contact and knew how to hit the hole, he passed protected better than bradshaw but caught balls better in the backfield. he reminded me a lot of ward.

    again like gilbride i question perry at times as well like the 3rd and 18 in the 2nd qtr but that was more of a great play call and busted coverage by rolle and webster. sometimes he plays zone too many times for me but he is very inflexible with his calls and concepts. he is a zone D type coach and that's why we match up well with teams like NE and GB because their offensive system attacks the D within a 5 - 20yd window. when other teams and players says there's holes they're talking about vertically and they'll attack beyond 20yds and you hope that the D line gets to the qb. this is where kenny is missed playing center field and while stevie has been great he doesn't cover the whole field the way kenny can, he can only cover a half. so when people said kenny doesn't get enough ints its because he was more of a pass deflection type safety because of what they asked him to do. yes he needs to change but it doesn't help when your system requires CB/SS that are quick and smart but also healthy. imagine if thomas wasn't lost for the season, or if kenny was healthy. how much better would webster,prince and rolle be.

    and while we are quick to get rid of Killdrive just look at the steelers with haley, a new OC is not the answer. the answer for me is getting healthy players at the right time just like last year. football is a game of a few plays here and there that decide the outcome. what if mario and tyree doesn't make the catch. what if nicks doesn't get that last pass in the first half does it change how GB comes out in the 2nd?, how about the strip of osi on rodgers, or the fumble-kneeitis of williams in the nfc championship game. this is still a good footbal team that knows how to win, they just need to get healthy and its just sad that it couldn't happen again this year. here's the thing, if-IF they get in somehow, i have good feeling they can go far. maybe not all the way but they can make some noise.

  2. #2
    Your right its not all on the coaching but most of it is in my opinion. Are oline sucks pretty bad. And the d is just bad all around this year.

    I put most of this on the coaches. Year after year we fall on are face come the middle of the season. You can't put that on the hads of anyone but this coaching staff. For the most part thats the only thing that dosent change along with the play calling.

  3. #3
    Even though Eli hasn't been sacked all that much this year, he probably plays behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. He gets hurried into throws a lot more than the average QB, he's just gotten better at getting rid of the ball as opposed to taking a sack. That also explains most of his INTs.

    The turning point this season was when Deihl had to go back into the lineup. The O-line just plain sucks with him in there.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by NYtoSanDiego View Post
    while i question gilbride at times its not entirely his fault. the pass offense this year hasn't been the same because of an unheathly nicks but also no manningham as well. in order for this pass offense to work at this time of the year you need three reliable wrs playing and knowing the concepts and not plug in players (eg:barden/randle/jernigan) not knowing the system. hopefully randle becomes that guy next year but look what happened after 08. nicks/mario/steve looked great after 8 games but issues popped up at the 2nd half of the year where mario and nicks weren't on the same page as eli. it took the core three a good two years to fully grasp the concepts which you hear a lot from gilbride. well what about cruz in 11, technically it was his first full year as a starter? yes, but he was with the team the year before and that time spent with eli during the lock out helped accelerating his learning curve or he could just be smart guy.

    the OL has been an issue that we've been talking about for the past two to three years. it doesn't matter if nicks and cruz are at 100% and randle becomes the next mario, if eli doesn't have time for routes to develop and find the open receiver it doesn't matter because he will be off target or get sacked.

    also the team changed after the brown injury and hasn't been the same. i think if brown stayed heathy we wouldn't be where we are right now. brown not only got yards after contact and knew how to hit the hole, he passed protected better than bradshaw but caught balls better in the backfield. he reminded me a lot of ward.

    again like gilbride i question perry at times as well like the 3rd and 18 in the 2nd qtr but that was more of a great play call and busted coverage by rolle and webster. sometimes he plays zone too many times for me but he is very inflexible with his calls and concepts. he is a zone D type coach and that's why we match up well with teams like NE and GB because their offensive system attacks the D within a 5 - 20yd window. when other teams and players says there's holes they're talking about vertically and they'll attack beyond 20yds and you hope that the D line gets to the qb. this is where kenny is missed playing center field and while stevie has been great he doesn't cover the whole field the way kenny can, he can only cover a half. so when people said kenny doesn't get enough ints its because he was more of a pass deflection type safety because of what they asked him to do. yes he needs to change but it doesn't help when your system requires CB/SS that are quick and smart but also healthy. imagine if thomas wasn't lost for the season, or if kenny was healthy. how much better would webster,prince and rolle be.

    and while we are quick to get rid of Killdrive just look at the steelers with haley, a new OC is not the answer. the answer for me is getting healthy players at the right time just like last year. football is a game of a few plays here and there that decide the outcome. what if mario and tyree doesn't make the catch. what if nicks doesn't get that last pass in the first half does it change how GB comes out in the 2nd?, how about the strip of osi on rodgers, or the fumble-kneeitis of williams in the nfc championship game. this is still a good footbal team that knows how to win, they just need to get healthy and its just sad that it couldn't happen again this year. here's the thing, if-IF they get in somehow, i have good feeling they can go far. maybe not all the way but they can make some noise.
    I agree 100% with everything, but the Manningham aspect. DH is better and just as fast as MM while making difficult catches more often.

  5. #5
    That oline more then sucks

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by nygpolishpunk View Post
    Even though Eli hasn't been sacked all that much this year, he probably plays behind one of the worst O-lines in the league. He gets hurried into throws a lot more than the average QB, he's just gotten better at getting rid of the ball as opposed to taking a sack. That also explains most of his INTs.

    The turning point this season was when Deihl had to go back into the lineup. The O-line just plain sucks with him in there.
    Eh some of the interceptions. Eli is just as much to blame as everyone else

  7. #7
    Speaking of Manningham he just tore his ACL in this Seahawks game

  8. #8
    Ok... You get a new OC and DC how long before both sides grasp the system? Getting new coordinators is not the answer, if anything keep them because it could be bad for a year or two and this team doesn't have time to wait that long for the players to get it. Get some help with OL, pray that nicks has a great rehab off season, pray that randle works in the off season, pray that terrel is back at 100%, pray that brown is back, pray that Kenny is back at 100%. Damn that's a lot of hail Mary's and our father's. After all that hopefully gilbride and fewell learns from this season after watching film.

    Another issue that they were able to do well last year is in game and 2nd half adjustments. For whatever reason both offense and defense can't seem to adjust their gameplans. When I see gilbride, Eli and Carr look at film I still haven't seen them adjust to the D since the saints game.

  9. #9
    All-Pro FBomb's Avatar
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    There's plenty of blame to go around for everybody. Everyone can have seconds and thirds.
    And now, in the interest of equal time, here is a message from the National Institute of Pancakes: It reads, and I quote, **** waffles.......G Carlin

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by FBomb View Post
    There's plenty of blame to go around for everybody. Everyone can have seconds and thirds.
    More than plenty. I've been trying to think of a Giant or two who had a good game today. I know there have to be some, but I can't come up with the names at the moment.

    I've never been one to blame the game plans (2 SB's in 5 years you know), but it seems that the opposing offenses are more familiar with our defensive schemes than our defenders are - and then it seems that the opposing defenses understand our offensive schemes and progressions better than the Giants' offensive players do. But that doesn't excuse the lack of execution by the Giants.

    I'm just disgruntled at the moment. It will be gone by game time next Sunday.

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