[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="dezzzR"]I saw Warhorse last night. Great movie. I must of cried like 5-6 times though. lol.
[/quote]
You are not supposed to admit that.
[/quote]
whats a better trade for DHow???
Amare & Chandler
or
Bynum and Gasol
Morehead Prediction
AL East
1. Red Sox
2. Orioles
3. Tampa
4. Jays
5. Yankees
BOOK IT!!!!!!
[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="byron"]
Today's football is the evolution of all that's come to pass...imho... there is no reason not to believe that the giants, play some sort ofhybrid run and shoot that involvesTE's....While I don't really care one way or the other I don't find it tofar fetched, given our OC's history with it.....there has to be some residue I would think...Dare I say onlyGilbride knows for surebutwhat a novel idea tothrow to the open wr.....</P>
how many more days!?!?</P>
[/quote]
exactly
infact the biggest knock of why the typical run and shoot was considered dead was because there was no protection for the QB because they didn't use a TE/FB.
But they didnt' always run 4 wide with WRs, they soemtimes did it with 2 WRs and 2 UPBACKS. Upbacks are basically what the TE position has turned into today with all of these guys that aren't great blockers but too big to play WR and can catch.
We also don't fully committ to that offense, we can line up and play smashmouth
or at least we use to be able to. But you'll even notice we are throwing alot on 3rd and shorts instead of lining up and palying smash mouth
[/quote]</P>
Go ahead and quote Wikipedia. You need to see the offense work to see how antiquated it is.</P>
And wee throw on third and short because our O line is lousy at run blocking. C'mon Matt.</P>
We throw on third and short because we're a run and shoot hybrid? Your better than that.</P>
reverbnation.com/yummytheunderdog
[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]
<h3><span id="Key_concepts" class="mw-headline">Key concepts</span></h3>
The following concepts are key to understanding the Run & Shoot:
</p>
<ul>[*]Throw to the open receiver. This is fairly obvious but if the receiver is open, the quarterback must recognize the coverage and find him in time to get him the ball. [*]If the QB reads 5 or less in the box, run the football. This means that traditional defensive formations using a 3-4 or 4-3 front will have moved 2 defenders outside of the "box" for coverage help. The "box" is the area about a yard outside of the tight end or offensive tackle on one side of the line to the other offensive tackle/tight end on the other side of the line and about 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. [*]Use motion and formations to spread the defense out and anticipate what the defense is going to do. If one uses motion and the defensive back follows the motioning receiver, they are probably playing man coverage or blitzing. If no defensive back follows the motion receiver, then they are probably playing zone defense.[/list]
</p>
---</p>
</p>
i'll own u on this all day ol man
</p>
[/quote]</p>
You just described every offense in the NFL.</p>
The Giants try to throw to the open receiver, they use motion to read zone or man to man and if the defense moves out of the box they will audible to a running play. This is offense 101.</p>
You are absolutely nuts. You have no idea what the Run and Shoot is!!!</p>
There are no TE's so as to flood the zone with WR's. I repeat, there are NO TE's. Lomas said when they got rid of the R & S the first thing they had to do was draft or sign TE's because there were none on the roster.</p>
[/quote]So just because Gilbride/TC plugged in a tightend its not a run and shot anymore? Can you at least admit that certain aspects of the scheme have been incorporated into our current scheme?
[/quote]</p>
Huh?</p>
This little list above. (use motion, audible out of a play when after reading defenses and (this I love) Throw to open receivers) describes what every offense in football does.</p>
Are there aspects of every offense ever used in every current offense? Of course. But Matt's original point way back when was that Eli had a lot of picks because the Giants us a version of the Run and Shoot. This was the genesis of the argument. The Run and Shoot was a short lived, discredited offense that got QB's killed in the late 80's and especially the 90's. It doesn't work.</p>
So Matts argument is specious because for him to be right, only the Giants have to use principles that caused Eli to throw a lot of picks. So why did he throw only 10 in 2008? Why has he only thrown 1 in the past 5 games? Why did he throw only 1 in the 2007 playoffs?</p>
Because he's playing better. Because he's better in the pocket. because he's making better decisions. Its not hard. Its only complicated to Matt.</p>
So the point that 25 int's was due to the 'Run and Shoot" aspects of the offense is silly.</p>
</p>
</p>
The run and shoot has 11 players. Wow....so do the Giants. (and every other team)</p>
The run and shoot uses WR's. Another coincidence..so do the Giants. (and every other team)</p>
The run and shoot uses motion.....Holy cow another similarity to the Giants. (and other team)</p>
</p>
The run and shoot does not use TE's....oops!.</p>
The run and shoot has no FB......oops!</p>
The run and shoot floods the zone with WR's....oops!</p>
The run and shoot uses primarily a three step drop....oops!</p>
</p>
Now please people.....<font size="5">I'm going on vacation!!!</font></p>
</p>
</p>[/quote]
no but they use upbacks, could u give me the definition of what an upback was in the early 90s and then maybe name a player who would fit that mold back then
Morehead Prediction
AL East
1. Red Sox
2. Orioles
3. Tampa
4. Jays
5. Yankees
BOOK IT!!!!!!
[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="lttaylor56"][quote user="JPizzack"]
[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]http://www.amazon.com/Take-Your-Eye-Off-Ball/dp/1600786170
just ordered it. can't wait for it to come
everybody that has read it said its a ****in awesome read.
(i suggest pappy reads it as well)
[/quote]
Eli is about to rewrite this one...
[/quote]</P>
lol.."click to look inside"....and when you do it's like page after page of Eli Manning photos. haha</P>
[/quote]I watched the Nov 6 game again last night that we played Pat's. This is not going to be a cake walk at the SB. Both teams made mistakes in that game. If we continue like we have been,,,,,,I have to think we have the advantage.[/quote]</P>
38-27 Giants. (and I'm giving the Pats a TD in garbage time)</P>
Giants get big lead in first half.</P>
A couple nervous moments in the 2nd half.</P>
But a decisive win.</P>
*</P>[/quote]I'll go with you on the positive side, I want to convincingly beat this Pat's team. I'm not going to say any of the negative thoughts that pushed themselves into my mind. Rolle said he's not talking about losing a sb and I'm not bringing us down.
Have a great vacation.
Where are you going?
[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]
<H3><SPAN id=Key_concepts class=mw-headline>Key concepts</SPAN></H3>
The following concepts are key to understanding the Run & Shoot:
</P>
<UL>
<LI>Throw to the open receiver. This is fairly obvious but if the receiver is open, the quarterback must recognize the coverage and find him in time to get him the ball.
<LI>If the QB reads 5 or less in the box, run the football. This means that traditional defensive formations using a 3-4 or 4-3 front will have moved 2 defenders outside of the "box" for coverage help. The "box" is the area about a yard outside of the tight end or offensive tackle on one side of the line to the other offensive tackle/tight end on the other side of the line and about 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
<LI>Use motion and formations to spread the defense out and anticipate what the defense is going to do. If one uses motion and the defensive back follows the motioning receiver, they are probably playing man coverage or blitzing. If no defensive back follows the motion receiver, then they are probably playing zone defense.</LI>[/list]
</P>
---</P>
</P>
i'll own u on this all day ol man
</P>
[/quote]</P>
You just described every offense in the NFL.</P>
The Giants try to throw to the open receiver, they use motion to read zone or man to man and if the defense moves out of the box they will audible to a running play. This is offense 101.</P>
You are absolutely nuts. You have no idea what the Run and Shoot is!!!</P>
There are no TE's so as to flood the zone with WR's. I repeat, there are NO TE's. Lomas said when they got rid of the R & S the first thing they had to do was draft or sign TE's because there were none on the roster.</P>
[/quote]So just because Gilbride/TC plugged in a tightend its not a run and shot anymore? Can you at least admit that certain aspects of the scheme have been incorporated into our current scheme?
[/quote]</P>
Huh?</P>
This little list above. (use motion, audible out of a play when after reading defenses and (this I love) Throw to open receivers) describes what every offense in football does.</P>
Are there aspects of every offense ever used in every current offense? Of course. But Matt's original point way back when was that Eli had a lot of picks because the Giants us a version of the Run and Shoot. This was the genesis of the argument. The Run and Shoot was a short lived, discredited offense that got QB's killed in the late 80's and especially the 90's. It doesn't work.</P>
So Matts argument is specious because for him to be right, only the Giants have to use principles that caused Eli to throw a lot of picks. So why did he throw only 10 in 2008? Why has he only thrown 1 in the past 5 games? Why did he throw only 1 in the 2007 playoffs?</P>
Because he's playing better. Because he's better in the pocket. because he's making better decisions. Its not hard. Its only complicated to Matt.</P>
So the point that 25 int's was due to the 'Run and Shoot" aspects of the offense is silly.</P>
</P>
</P>
The run and shoot has 11 players. Wow....so do the Giants. (and every other team)</P>
The run and shoot uses WR's. Another coincidence..so do the Giants. (and every other team)</P>
The run and shoot uses motion.....Holy cow another similarity to the Giants. (and other team)</P>
</P>
The run and shoot does not use TE's....oops!.</P>
The run and shoot has no FB......oops!</P>
The run and shoot floods the zone with WR's....oops!</P>
The run and shoot uses primarily a three step drop....oops!</P>
</P>
Now please people.....<FONT size=5>I'm going on vacation!!!</FONT></P>
</P>
</P>
[/quote]
no but they use upbacks, could u give me the definition of what an upback was in the early 90s and then maybe name a player who would fit that mold back then
[/quote]
I read the same Wiki article and I have no idea what they're talking about.</P>
Lorenzo White and Barry Sanders didn't have any "upbacks".</P>
reverbnation.com/yummytheunderdog
[quote user="lttaylor56"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="lttaylor56"][quote user="JPizzack"]
[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]http://www.amazon.com/Take-Your-Eye-Off-Ball/dp/1600786170
just ordered it. can't wait for it to come
everybody that has read it said its a ****in awesome read.
(i suggest pappy reads it as well)
[/quote]
Eli is about to rewrite this one...
[/quote]</P>
lol.."click to look inside"....and when you do it's like page after page of Eli Manning photos. haha</P>
[/quote]I watched the Nov 6 game again last night that we played Pat's. This is not going to be a cake walk at the SB. Both teams made mistakes in that game. If we continue like we have been,,,,,,I have to think we have the advantage.[/quote]</P>
38-27 Giants. (and I'm giving the Pats a TD in garbage time)</P>
Giants get big lead in first half.</P>
A couple nervous moments in the 2nd half.</P>
But a decisive win.</P>
</P>
[/quote]I'll go with you on the positive side, I want to convincingly beat this Pat's team. I'm not going to say any of the negative thoughts that pushed themselves into my mind. Rolle said he's not talking about losing a sb and I'm not bringing us down. Have a great vacation. Where are you going?[/quote]</P>
St. Croix.</P>
I've been working out like a fiend the last month or so. The old bod is coming back. By April I'll be back to the "addonis" Morehead once again.</P>
reverbnation.com/yummytheunderdog
[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]
<h3><span id="Key_concepts" class="mw-headline">Key concepts</span></h3>
The following concepts are key to understanding the Run & Shoot:
</p>
<ul>[*]Throw to the open receiver. This is fairly obvious but if the receiver is open, the quarterback must recognize the coverage and find him in time to get him the ball. [*]If the QB reads 5 or less in the box, run the football. This means that traditional defensive formations using a 3-4 or 4-3 front will have moved 2 defenders outside of the "box" for coverage help. The "box" is the area about a yard outside of the tight end or offensive tackle on one side of the line to the other offensive tackle/tight end on the other side of the line and about 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. [*]Use motion and formations to spread the defense out and anticipate what the defense is going to do. If one uses motion and the defensive back follows the motioning receiver, they are probably playing man coverage or blitzing. If no defensive back follows the motion receiver, then they are probably playing zone defense.[/list]
</p>
---</p>
</p>
i'll own u on this all day ol man
</p>
[/quote]</p>
You just described every offense in the NFL.</p>
The Giants try to throw to the open receiver, they use motion to read zone or man to man and if the defense moves out of the box they will audible to a running play. This is offense 101.</p>
You are absolutely nuts. You have no idea what the Run and Shoot is!!!</p>
There are no TE's so as to flood the zone with WR's. I repeat, there are NO TE's. Lomas said when they got rid of the R & S the first thing they had to do was draft or sign TE's because there were none on the roster.</p>
[/quote]
exactly why i would call it a hybrid Run and shoot.
cuz we've incorporated the TE into the offense. Now back then, the TEs weren't ilke this. Today's "RECEIVING TIGHT ENDS" would of definitly been classified as UPBACKS that would of absolutely fit into the traditional run and shoot. I would be amazed if u'd disagree with that
And while everybody DOES run option routes, nobody bases their whole passing game on it like we do - which is basically the biggest part of the run and shoot that carried over. And don't worry i'm waiting for a response to completely end your argument
[/quote]</p>
Option routes came as an answer to the complexities of defenses in recent years. They are absolutely necessary for a passing game to work. </p>
You have no idea how wide open and fast paced the run and shoot was. Watch some of these college teams use it with their huge O line splits. Or watch film of Jeff George or warren Moon run it. This system does NOT translate well to the NFL anymore at all.</p>
It has no resemblance to what the Giants do. (Oh I forgot..they do use 11 players just like the R & S, I forgot)</p>[/quote]
Option routes was a concept originated from the run and shoot style (like the article says). Please name me another team that relies on it to the degree that we do. ITS OUR WHOLE PASSING OFFENSE
I said its a hybrid run and shoot. Which means we took alot of concepts from it and applied it to our offense, which is true...
still waiting to hear your upbacks response and I was making this argument WAYYY before I went to wiki. Where else would u like me to quote things from the run and shoot?
Your pretty much denying all facts involved just because it doesn't agree with you.
Morehead Prediction
AL East
1. Red Sox
2. Orioles
3. Tampa
4. Jays
5. Yankees
BOOK IT!!!!!!
[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="byron"]
Today's football is the evolution of all that's come to pass...imho... there is no reason not to believe that the giants, play some sort ofhybrid run and shoot that involvesTE's....While I don't really care one way or the other I don't find it tofar fetched, given our OC's history with it.....there has to be some residue I would think...Dare I say onlyGilbride knows for sure
how many more days!?!?</p>
[/quote]
exactly
infact the biggest knock of why the typical run and shoot was considered dead was because there was no protection for the QB because they didn't use a TE/FB.
But they didnt' always run 4 wide with WRs, they soemtimes did it with 2 WRs and 2 UPBACKS. Upbacks are basically what the TE position has turned into today with all of these guys that aren't great blockers but too big to play WR and can catch.
We also don't fully committ to that offense, we can line up and play smashmouth
or at least we use to be able to. But you'll even notice we are throwing alot on 3rd and shorts instead of lining up and palying smash mouth
[/quote]</p>
Go ahead and quote Wikipedia. You need to see the offense work to see how antiquated it is.</p>
And wee throw on third and short because our O line is lousy at run blocking. C'mon Matt.</p>
We throw on third and short because we're a run and shoot hybrid? Your better than that.</p>[/quote]
we've been averaging 4.2 a carry the past 5 games. We have been running the ball VERY successfully. And we should be able to line up and get first down on 3rd and 1. But we don't use bradshaw and we try to run off tackle
Morehead Prediction
AL East
1. Red Sox
2. Orioles
3. Tampa
4. Jays
5. Yankees
BOOK IT!!!!!!
[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]
<H3><SPAN id=Key_concepts class=mw-headline>Key concepts</SPAN></H3>
The following concepts are key to understanding the Run & Shoot:
</P>
<UL>
<LI>Throw to the open receiver. This is fairly obvious but if the receiver is open, the quarterback must recognize the coverage and find him in time to get him the ball.
<LI>If the QB reads 5 or less in the box, run the football. This means that traditional defensive formations using a 3-4 or 4-3 front will have moved 2 defenders outside of the "box" for coverage help. The "box" is the area about a yard outside of the tight end or offensive tackle on one side of the line to the other offensive tackle/tight end on the other side of the line and about 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
<LI>Use motion and formations to spread the defense out and anticipate what the defense is going to do. If one uses motion and the defensive back follows the motioning receiver, they are probably playing man coverage or blitzing. If no defensive back follows the motion receiver, then they are probably playing zone defense.</LI>[/list]
</P>
---</P>
</P>
i'll own u on this all day ol man
</P>
[/quote]</P>
You just described every offense in the NFL.</P>
The Giants try to throw to the open receiver, they use motion to read zone or man to man and if the defense moves out of the box they will audible to a running play. This is offense 101.</P>
You are absolutely nuts. You have no idea what the Run and Shoot is!!!</P>
There are no TE's so as to flood the zone with WR's. I repeat, there are NO TE's. Lomas said when they got rid of the R & S the first thing they had to do was draft or sign TE's because there were none on the roster.</P>
[/quote]
exactly why i would call it a hybrid Run and shoot.
cuz we've incorporated the TE into the offense. Now back then, the TEs weren't ilke this. Today's "RECEIVING TIGHT ENDS" would of definitly been classified as UPBACKS that would of absolutely fit into the traditional run and shoot. I would be amazed if u'd disagree with that
And while everybody DOES run option routes, nobody bases their whole passing game on it like we do - which is basically the biggest part of the run and shoot that carried over. And don't worry i'm waiting for a response to completely end your argument
[/quote]</P>
Option routes came as an answer to the complexities of defenses in recent years. They are absolutely necessary for a passing game to work. </P>
You have no idea how wide open and fast paced the run and shoot was. Watch some of these college teams use it with their huge O line splits. Or watch film of Jeff George or warren Moon run it. This system does NOT translate well to the NFL anymore at all.</P>
It has no resemblance to what the Giants do. (Oh I forgot..they do use 11 players just like the R & S, I forgot)</P>
[/quote]
Option routes was a concept originated from the run and shoot style (like the article says). Please name me another team that relies on it to the degree that we do. ITS OUR WHOLE PASSING OFFENSE
I said its a hybrid run and shoot. Which means we took alot of concepts from it and applied it to our offense, which is true...
still waiting to hear your upbacks response and I was making this argument WAYYY before I went to wiki. Where else would u like me to quote things from the run and shoot?
Your pretty much denying all facts involved just because it doesn't agree with you.
[/quote]</P>
I have no idea what they are referring to as an "upback". It appears neither do you.</P>
And to say it our "whole offense" is silly. We make sight adjustments to enhance our offense, not to throw more picks.</P>
Are there sight adjustments? Yes. Just like every other team. It didn't make Eli throw 25 picks last year as you claimed.</P>
reverbnation.com/yummytheunderdog
And I don't expect you to quote any source. I expect that since you have such a strong view, you should have seen it in use extensively, understand what you have seen, and then apply it to the Giants offense. I'm getting none of that. I'm getting wiki references. That great source of NFL knowledge.</P>
The fact that you are reading about it demonstrates that you don't have any idea how it works.</P>
reverbnation.com/yummytheunderdog
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
