THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[DavenIII]

[quote user="JPizzack"]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]I would say that national healthcare would help more people than the current system does and thats why i'm for it.[/quote]

We will lose doctors, the quality of care logically MUST decrease if you are caring for more people with less doctors.....this is not debatable...if you are ok with more people getting care but everyone getting a lower quality of care that's up to you I guess.

But it will also cost many many jobs...and it removes choice, it also leaves decisions up to people other then your doctor, when you are 50+ and need a transplant but smoked half your life you will be skipped, they will give it to someone else...and it won't matter that you needed it first.
[/quote]</p>


why do you continue to write off the first hand opinions of people who have both been insured free by govt, and privately here...and say natiional healthcare is better?
yousay "logically" but you dont know that for sure, since we cant predict immediately less doctors. It's like guaranteed work lol. </p>[/quote]

No I do know that for sure, That why I keep saying logically...because it's a god damned math problem Pizz.

More patients+less Doctors = lower quality of care...period end of story there is no discussion to be had.

I'm not saying people can't think it's better there are plenty that do just as there are plenty that think it's worse.

the reason I'm writing it off is because there is an equal amount of circumstantial evidence for and against it when asking people who have lived in both systems....it's wipes clean.

[DavenIII]

[quote user="dezzzR"]I dont think people should be embarrassed, this country is in the ****ter and a lot of people need help. BUT everything else is spot on, especially the last paragraph.
[/quote]

If people are content in living on unemployment medicare/medicaid and eventually social security...what reason do they have to go out there and better themselves, get a job...what's their motivation.

the point is if you are embarrassed to be on these programs you have the drive to stop needing them, you actively pursue any lead, but because soo many people are on it now and because the pay is so much above what is needed to live (and I know that for a fact) people are not actively pursuing opportunities.

I can't tell you how many people I know could have had a job but choose to turn it down because it'd be less or only marginally more then their unemployment benefits.

people are content to live off the government....no one cares about being their own person anymore.

[Kase-1]

Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance

[DavenIII]

[quote user="Kase-1"]Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance
[/quote]

Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.

PS: Lunch Time.

[dezzzR]

[quote user="Kase-1"]Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance
[/quote]sick rangaz game the other night.

[dezzzR]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Kase-1"]Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance
[/quote]

Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

<u>whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.</u>

PS: Lunch Time.
[/quote]and there you have it folks....

[dezzzR]

<h6 class="uiStreamMessage uiStreamHeadline"><div class="actorDescription actorName" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:2}">In Reese We Trust</div></h6><h6 class="uiStreamMessage" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:1}"> <span class="messageBody" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:3}">The
Raiders are $20 million over the projected cap. They have a lot of work
to do to get under the cap. One of the players that might be a cap
casualty is Rolando McClain. Should the Giants pursue if he becomes
available?</span></h6>

[Kase-1]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Kase-1"]Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance
[/quote]

Yeah, it sucks, but they can not refuse you, if you show up at the ER they will treat you, yes you will have some heinous bills to pay...but you can do monthly installments worse comes to worse you may have to go bankrupt...

whats worse then a small percentage of Americans not having insurance though is a reduction in the quality of care for ALL Americans just to cover the small portion who don't have it.

PS: Lunch Time.
[/quote]You obviously have health insurance and pay a reasonable amount

Next time you have a minute and see how much private out of pocket health insurance is for 1 person, its DISGUSTING

And I totally disagree, it may be worse for YOU, but as a whole, the country would be much better off if we had nationwide healthcare. I think you guys can afford an extra $3 on prescriptions when you compare that situation to those who cant afford the most basic health insurance.

If we're gonna claim to be the best country in the world, we gotta help our own people 1st

[Kase-1]

[quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="Kase-1"]Forget high deductables, co-pays and long lines at the Dr office. Ya know whats REALLY rough, not having insurance
[/quote]sick rangaz game the other night.
[/quote]I missed it, I was up in VT doing some GREAT skiing in waist deep powder. Just got home last nite

Gotta say, Im THRILLED that we didnt get Nash, Colombus wanted too much for him

[Morehead State]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


[quote user="DavenIII"]Also I just saw a claim recently.

it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)

600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston

it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.

200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta

so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
[/quote]</P>


I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</P>


My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</P>


I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</P>


[/quote] I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.[/quote]</P>


I have great dental insurance.</P>


[/quote]

further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...

or were u just davening?
[/quote]</P>


Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</P>


My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</P>


[/quote]

yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.

This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.

Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.

It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say

EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
[/quote]</P>


My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</P>


You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</P>


You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</P>


[/quote]

okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
[/quote]</P>


You have to be kidding me.</P>


What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</P>


Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</P>


Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </P>


The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</P>


The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</P>


[/quote]

I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.

And I think your living in the past. Americans arent' self reliant anymore.
[/quote]</P>


And its this attitude that is the biggest problem. "Americans need to be cared for by the federal government". If this is true we are truly doomed.</P>


[/quote]

hate to break it to you, but its what has alreayd happened and shown to be truth.

I'm sorry but its true. First step to solving a problem is identifying it. You've yet to identify that we have fallen from being self reliant
[/quote]</P>


I wonder how much of our social welfare experiment (which nurtures dependancy on the government) over the past 50 years has to do with it. Well we are in for a rude awakening, because running $1 trillion+ deficits will be the ruin of us. Unless that is dealt with, there will be no safety net in this country. There will only be interest payments to the Chinese.</P>


Then we will be self reliant by need.</P>[/quote]

i just looked it up quick.... "Welfare" took up 12% of the national budget

that 12% is made up of:

1. <LI>General retirement and disability insurance
   <LI>Federal employee retirement and disability
   <LI>Unemployment compensation
   <LI>Housing assistance
   <LI>Food and nutrition assistance
   <LI>Other income security</LI>

[/quote]</P>


I'm not talking about "welfare" I'm talking about all social welfare programs.</P>


Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. And now Obamacare.</P>


The projections are that these will explode if left unattended over the next 10 to 20 years.</P>