THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="byron"]] Well whatever man... I'm not going to try and figure out how orwhat this coaching bases their decisions on but Cruz out produced every wrs here and set records in the process....That tells me that perhaps a boo boo was made the his evaluation...Or there was some other screwed up reason for it.....[/quote]

Well the point is Byron...if they consider Cruz a 3rd receiver he's going to be covered in some situations by linebackers while Mario is out there on a Corner Back...so obviously the production numbers are going to be skewed...that's why I'm not using statistics at all in this discussion...because they don't matter...they are unreliable.
[/quote]

out of games played WITH each other Mario had 740 snaps and Cruz had 841 snaps...

thats not including the 3 games Mario missed where in one or two of them cruz actually played more than Nicks.

[DavenIII]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="byron"]] Well whatever man... I'm not going to try and figure out how orwhat this coaching bases their decisions on but Cruz out produced every wrs here and set records in the process....That tells me that perhaps a boo boo was made the his evaluation...Or there was some other screwed up reason for it.....[/quote]

Well the point is Byron...if they consider Cruz a 3rd receiver he's going to be covered in some situations by linebackers while Mario is out there on a Corner Back...so obviously the production numbers are going to be skewed...that's why I'm not using statistics at all in this discussion...because they don't matter...they are unreliable.
[/quote]

out of games played WITH each other Mario had 740 snaps and Cruz had 841 snaps...

thats not including the 3 games Mario missed where in one or two of them cruz actually played more than Nicks.
[/quote]

good so that proves that Cruz led in snaps and was the #2 receiver at some point...but when did he over take Mario? was it past halfway through the season?

regardless you admit it was closer then you thought correct? whats Nicks vs Cruz Snap count?

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="byron"]] Well whatever man... I'm not going to try and figure out how orwhat this coaching bases their decisions on but Cruz out produced every wrs here and set records in the process....That tells me that perhaps a boo boo was made the his evaluation...Or there was some other screwed up reason for it.....[/quote]

Well the point is Byron...if they consider Cruz a 3rd receiver he's going to be covered in some situations by linebackers while Mario is out there on a Corner Back...so obviously the production numbers are going to be skewed...that's why I'm not using statistics at all in this discussion...because they don't matter...they are unreliable.
[/quote]

out of games played WITH each other Mario had 740 snaps and Cruz had 841 snaps...

thats not including the 3 games Mario missed where in one or two of them cruz actually played more than Nicks.
[/quote]

good so that proves that Cruz led in snaps and was the #2 receiver at some point...but when did he over take Mario? was it past halfway through the season?

regardless you admit it was closer then you thought correct? whats Nicks vs Cruz Snap count?
[/quote]

i admitted it was closer but just responded in the other thread why it wasn't close

[DavenIII]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"]

i admitted it was closer but just responded in the other thread why it wasn't close
[/quote]

in my estimation, if our coaching staff thought Mario was the #2 from games 1-12 and thought Cruz was the #2 from 13-Superbowl that gives Mario 11 games (2 of which he missed) at the #2 spot and Cruz 9 games at the #2 spot.....

and that's being generous...because I could also say that opposing defenses were late in recognizing that Cruz was the new #2...and since how the defense plays the player is a big portion of it I could say even for a few weeks after Mario could still arguably be considered the #2.


it's not cut and dry like you thought it was....I still give the nod to Mario...by a little.

[MattMeyerBud]

in games played together Nicks had 1192 (he missed one) and Cruz had 933

They pushed on two games they played together and Cruz actually had more snaps than Nicks in 4 games, including the Superbowl.

Cruz's total snaps played for the year was 995

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]

i admitted it was closer but just responded in the other thread why it wasn't close
[/quote]

in my estimation, if our coaching staff thought Mario was the #2 from games 1-12 and thought Cruz was the #2 from 13-Superbowl that gives Mario 11 games (2 of which he missed) at the #2 spot and Cruz 9 games at the #2 spot.....

and that's being generous...because I could also say that opposing defenses were late in recognizing that Cruz was the new #2...and since how the defense plays the player is a big portion of it I could say even for a few weeks after Mario could still arguably be considered the #2.


it's not cut and dry like you thought it was....I still give the nod to Mario...by a little.
[/quote]

He wasn't though.. only snaps wise did he have more snaps than cruz in 7 games... 7 out of 20... and 2nd half of the season it wasn't even close. At this point Cruz was getting more snaps than Nicks...

its close because I said a quarter of the season of games it was over, it was a little more. It was more like 35% of the games Mario was getting more snaps.

Mario never topped Nicks in snaps and damn sure didn't come close statistically to Cruz

so you were wrong

[ShockeyShow]

there should be no debate. Manningham was the #3 guy this year, and that is why he won't be in blue next season.


I just googled his name and one of the first articles states that Manningham is glad that Belichek made him #3, but now he wants to be a #1.

And you're argument about Cruz being covered by LB''s more than CB's is not valid. Defenses PRiMARILY lined up with nickel packages against us because we run 3 receiver sets so often

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]

i admitted it was closer but just responded in the other thread why it wasn't close
[/quote]

in my estimation, if our coaching staff thought Mario was the #2 from games 1-12 and thought Cruz was the #2 from 13-Superbowl that gives Mario 11 games (2 of which he missed) at the #2 spot and Cruz 9 games at the #2 spot.....

and that's being generous...because I could also say that opposing defenses were late in recognizing that Cruz was the new #2...and since how the defense plays the player is a big portion of it I could say even for a few weeks after Mario could still arguably be considered the #2.


it's not cut and dry like you thought it was....I still give the nod to Mario...by a little.
[/quote]

He wasn't though.. only snaps wise did he have more snaps than cruz in 7 games... 7 out of 20... and 2nd half of the season it wasn't even close. At this point Cruz was getting more snaps than Nicks...

its close because I said a quarter of the season of games it was over, it was a little more. It was more like 35% of the games Mario was getting more snaps.

Mario never topped Nicks in snaps and damn sure didn't come close statistically to Cruz

so you were wrong
[/quote]

Actually I lied it was 7 out of 17 games, i forgot so thats like 41% of the games he got more snaps

[DavenIII]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]

i admitted it was closer but just responded in the other thread why it wasn't close
[/quote]

in my estimation, if our coaching staff thought Mario was the #2 from games 1-12 and thought Cruz was the #2 from 13-Superbowl that gives Mario 11 games (2 of which he missed) at the #2 spot and Cruz 9 games at the #2 spot.....

and that's being generous...because I could also say that opposing defenses were late in recognizing that Cruz was the new #2...and since how the defense plays the player is a big portion of it I could say even for a few weeks after Mario could still arguably be considered the #2.


it's not cut and dry like you thought it was....I still give the nod to Mario...by a little.
[/quote]

He wasn't though.. only snaps wise did he have more snaps than cruz in 7 games... 7 out of 20... and 2nd half of the season it wasn't even close. At this point Cruz was getting more snaps than Nicks...

its close because I said a quarter of the season of games it was over, it was a little more. It was more like 35% of the games Mario was getting more snaps.

Mario never topped Nicks in snaps and damn sure didn't come close statistically to Cruz

so you were wrong
[/quote]

no you are looking at it differently then me...

I'm looking at it as a timeframe in which Mario was considered #2 vs when Cruz was....I think up until week 12 our coaches and opposing coaches (maybe longer for them) considered Mario the #2 option in our WR core...if that's the case Mario was the second option (in terms of perception of our coaching staff and opposing coaches) for 11 games (12 minus the bye) I don't even care that he missed two game...missing the game doesn't change the fact that he's considered the #2 for example if Calvin Johnson is out that doesn't make someone else the #1 on Detroit...it just means CJ's out...he's still considered the #1

If you look at it that way it's 11 games to 9 games Mario over Cruz for time at the #2 receiver slot...take the 2 games out he was injured in (because I know you'll want to) that's still 9 games vs 9 games it's a tie...you want to take out the 3 games they pushed? fine that's still 6 to 6 then..it's still a tie.

now I imagine you will say...but but look Daven Cruz had so many "more" snaps then Manningham did for the whole season though...

Valid point Matt...but think about how much better we were playing later into the season and the playoffs...we were on offense more, of course he has more total snaps...to me it doesn't prove anything.

so in the end if you ask me Mario was our #2 for slightly more then half the season...to me that makes him the #2...sorry...your snaps statistics (unless I'm misunderstanding them) only proves to me more that my initial opinion is valid.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]

i admitted it was closer but just responded in the other thread why it wasn't close
[/quote]

in my estimation, if our coaching staff thought Mario was the #2 from games 1-12 and thought Cruz was the #2 from 13-Superbowl that gives Mario 11 games (2 of which he missed) at the #2 spot and Cruz 9 games at the #2 spot.....

and that's being generous...because I could also say that opposing defenses were late in recognizing that Cruz was the new #2...and since how the defense plays the player is a big portion of it I could say even for a few weeks after Mario could still arguably be considered the #2.


it's not cut and dry like you thought it was....I still give the nod to Mario...by a little.
[/quote]

He wasn't though.. only snaps wise did he have more snaps than cruz in 7 games... 7 out of 20... and 2nd half of the season it wasn't even close. At this point Cruz was getting more snaps than Nicks...

its close because I said a quarter of the season of games it was over, it was a little more. It was more like 35% of the games Mario was getting more snaps.

Mario never topped Nicks in snaps and damn sure didn't come close statistically to Cruz

so you were wrong
[/quote]

no you are looking at it differently then me...

I'm looking at it as a timeframe in which Mario was considered #2 vs when Cruz was....I think up until week 12 our coaches and opposing coaches (maybe longer for them) considered Mario the #2 option in our WR core...if that's the case Mario was the second option (in terms of perception of our coaching staff and opposing coaches) for 11 games (12 minus the bye) I don't even care that he missed two game...missing the game doesn't change the fact that he's considered the #2 for example if Calvin Johnson is out that doesn't make someone else the #1 on Detroit...it just means CJ's out...he's still considered the #1

If you look at it that way it's 11 games to 9 games Mario over Cruz for time at the #2 receiver slot...take the 2 games out he was injured in (because I know you'll want to) that's still 9 games vs 9 games it's a tie...you want to take out the 3 games they pushed? fine that's still 6 to 6 then..it's still a tie.

now I imagine you will say...but but look Daven Cruz had so many "more" snaps then Manningham did for the whole season though...

Valid point Matt...but think about how much better we were playing later into the season and the playoffs...we were on offense more, of course he has more total snaps...to me it doesn't prove anything.
[/quote]

in reality more like up to week 8. If they pushed in week 9 and 11, how does Manningham get creduit for that?

And he didn't even play in week 3 or 12 so how does he get credit for that?

How much more could u possibly alter your argument?

You asked for snaps, I gave you snaps. Not only total snaps, but I didn't include Cruz's snaps in the game that Mario didn't play in in which Mario was HEAVILY out numbered

And if u reflect for all you know about our season last year, we know ur davening by keeping this argument up

how bout we go with games started last year?

Cruz 14, Mario 10...

u can subtract the 3 that Mario was out and make it 11-10, but still who was starting?