THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[dezzzR]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


OK..lets step back and look at this objectively. If someone was coming to this debate for the first time. Whichwould they say is the "obsessed" position?</p>


1. Eli is a good QB, even top 10, but doesn't protect the ball well enough.</p>


2. Eli is a future Hall of Famer and a gunslinger.</p>


</p>


</p>


[/quote]</p>


honestly MH....I think people calling him a hall of famer is kind of a rarity....
gunslinger, sure...we have that debate in here, but 1 person doesnt make it acommon argument. lol</p>


[/quote]</p>


Guys who got beat up in high school for lunch money, by definition can't be gunslingers.</p>


And Matt has repeatedly stated that he is a gunslinger who is headed for the Hall of Fame. All because he might put up Kerry Collins career numbers. Its nonsense. Its these extreem statements that I must challenge.</p>


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</p>[/quote]id just like to add phil simms is a borderline hall of famer and eli is on track to break pretty much all of his records if he hasnt already. soo...

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</p>


[/quote]</p>


You do realize that that is no longer the case. Although you may not agree, most sports are getting more and more lax with HOF voting it seems. luckily for football, we've had some pretty big names come thru the past few years.</p>


[/quote]</p>


Why can't we just have an honest discussion about our QB? He's a nice player. He needs to work on some things. But he is what he is.</p>


It can't be done here. Its got to be....</p>


"Not only is he not just a good QB.....He's a Hall of Famer!!!!!......The reason he throws into coverage is because........... he's........a gunslinger!!!! ........Yeah thats right....He's a gunslinger!!!!!!! .....Everybody loves a gunslinger!!!!!!!........He's in the same class as Tom Brady!!!!!!!........If you don't think so, you're an Eli hater!!!"</p>


Its nonsense. (BTW, Matt DID say after Eli's comments that he thought that Eli WAS in Tom Brady's class)</p>


</p>


[/quote]

again i said he did have similiar start to his career as brady did, numbers and record wise

its factual - not opinionated

being dramatic typically goes hand in hand with obsession
[/quote]</p>


Unfortunately this MB makes it tough to go back several weeks. I remember Dez saying that and you certainly might have regurgitated the same things.</p>


What I remember is your saying something like "I think he is" when responding to the conversation about Eli being in Brady's class.</p>


So now you are only saying that "statistically" he is. Is this right? Because if thats right you and I both know thats a silly point.</p>


[/quote]

ur actually frightening at this point

Dezz chimed in after reading the points i made in the thread on TAGF about this debate. A thread where I factually proved that the numbers were eerily similiar.

Thats when Dezz came in here and said wow you would never think those numbers

Get your facts straight old man. Your tilting toward the obsession route again
[/quote]</p>


eerily similar?</p>


Brady has a win/loss record of 113-32. Brady has a TD to int ratio of 268 to 104. Thats almost 3 to 1.</p>


Eli has a win/loss record of 61-44. His TD to int ratio is 158 to 115 Eli's numbers are solid. Nothing to sneeze at. </p>


Brady's are all time great numbers. He's also an all time great winner. 113 wins and 32 losses. Maybe the greatest winner of all time.</p>


To say that Eli is in this class is "obsessive"</p>


</p>[/quote]

like i said in those threads for two days. If you compare Bradys first 7 full seasons as a starter vs Eli's first full 7 as a starter the numbers are eerily similiar.

Im not going to recite those all for your again. Quite frankly its annoying that somebody as obsessed as you will just totally not retain or read anything that opposes your view point. You go look it up because I already compiled all of it already

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</p>


[/quote]</p>


You do realize that that is no longer the case. Although you may not agree, most sports are getting more and more lax with HOF voting it seems. luckily for football, we've had some pretty big names come thru the past few years.</p>


[/quote]</p>


Why can't we just have an honest discussion about our QB? He's a nice player. He needs to work on some things. But he is what he is.</p>


It can't be done here. Its got to be....</p>


"Not only is he not just a good QB.....He's a Hall of Famer!!!!!......The reason he throws into coverage is because........... he's........a gunslinger!!!! ........Yeah thats right....He's a gunslinger!!!!!!! .....Everybody loves a gunslinger!!!!!!!........He's in the same class as Tom Brady!!!!!!!........If you don't think so, you're an Eli hater!!!"</p>


Its nonsense. (BTW, Matt DID say after Eli's comments that he thought that Eli WAS in Tom Brady's class)</p>


</p>


[/quote]

again i said he did have similiar start to his career as brady did, numbers and record wise

its factual - not opinionated

being dramatic typically goes hand in hand with obsession
[/quote]</p>


Unfortunately this MB makes it tough to go back several weeks. I remember Dez saying that and you certainly might have regurgitated the same things.</p>


What I remember is your saying something like "I think he is" when responding to the conversation about Eli being in Brady's class.</p>


So now you are only saying that "statistically" he is. Is this right? Because if thats right you and I both know thats a silly point.</p>


[/quote]

statistically, record wise, has a ring, and continues to get better

your right, awful points
[/quote]</p>


Statistically: Not close</p>


Winning recordwise: Not close</p>


Rings: Not close</p>


And has gone from 10 to 14 and last year 25 ints in the past three years.</p>


All your points are proven false.</p>[/quote]

again reading comprehension old man. Don't jump in the conversation a month later and try and tell me my points are false when u obviously didn't read any of them

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


OK..lets step back and look at this objectively. If someone was coming to this debate for the first time. Whichwould they say is the "obsessed" position?</p>


1. Eli is a good QB, even top 10, but doesn't protect the ball well enough.</p>


2. Eli is a future Hall of Famer and a gunslinger.</p>


</p>


</p>


[/quote]</p>


honestly MH....I think people calling him a hall of famer is kind of a rarity....
gunslinger, sure...we have that debate in here, but 1 person doesnt make it acommon argument. lol</p>


[/quote]</p>


Guys who got beat up in high school for lunch money, by definition can't be gunslingers.</p>


And Matt has repeatedly stated that he is a gunslinger who is headed for the Hall of Fame. All because he might put up Kerry Collins career numbers. Its nonsense. Its these extreem statements that I must challenge.</p>


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</p>[/quote]id just like to add phil simms is a borderline hall of famer and eli is on track to break pretty much all of his records if he hasnt already. soo...
[/quote]

unfortunately Simms won't make it in.

His time has passed I think

[Morehead State]

[quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


OK..lets step back and look at this objectively. If someone was coming to this debate for the first time. Whichwould they say is the "obsessed" position?</P>


1. Eli is a good QB, even top 10, but doesn't protect the ball well enough.</P>


2. Eli is a future Hall of Famer and a gunslinger.</P>


</P>


</P>


[/quote]</P>


honestly MH....I think people calling him a hall of famer is kind of a rarity....
gunslinger, sure...we have that debate in here, but 1 person doesnt make it acommon argument. lol</P>


[/quote]</P>


Guys who got beat up in high school for lunch money, by definition can't be gunslingers.</P>


And Matt has repeatedly stated that he is a gunslinger who is headed for the Hall of Fame. All because he might put up Kerry Collins career numbers. Its nonsense. Its these extreem statements that I must challenge.</P>


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</P>


[/quote]id just like to add phil simms is a borderline hall of famer and eli is on track to break pretty much all of his records if he hasnt already. soo...
[/quote]</P>


The accumulation of stats is not much of a factor at all in Hall of Fame consideration.</P>


Hers a list of guys on the all time passing totals.</P>


#7- Vinny Testeverde</P>


#8- Drew Bledsoe</P>


#10- Kerry Collins</P>


#12- David Kreig</P>


#14- Boomer Esiason</P>


#19 Jim Everett</P>


#21- Steve DeBerg</P>


None would ever get any consideration for the Hall of Fame.</P>

[dezzzR]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</p>


[/quote]</p>


You do realize that that is no longer the case. Although you may not agree, most sports are getting more and more lax with HOF voting it seems. luckily for football, we've had some pretty big names come thru the past few years.</p>


[/quote]</p>


Why can't we just have an honest discussion about our QB? He's a nice player. He needs to work on some things. But he is what he is.</p>


It can't be done here. Its got to be....</p>


"Not only is he not just a good QB.....He's a Hall of Famer!!!!!......The reason he throws into coverage is because........... he's........a gunslinger!!!! ........Yeah thats right....He's a gunslinger!!!!!!! .....Everybody loves a gunslinger!!!!!!!........He's in the same class as Tom Brady!!!!!!!........If you don't think so, you're an Eli hater!!!"</p>


Its nonsense. (BTW, Matt DID say after Eli's comments that he thought that Eli WAS in Tom Brady's class)</p>


</p>


[/quote]

again i said he did have similiar start to his career as brady did, numbers and record wise

its factual - not opinionated

being dramatic typically goes hand in hand with obsession
[/quote]</p>


Unfortunately this MB makes it tough to go back several weeks. I remember Dez saying that and you certainly might have regurgitated the same things.</p>


What I remember is your saying something like "I think he is" when responding to the conversation about Eli being in Brady's class.</p>


So now you are only saying that "statistically" he is. Is this right? Because if thats right you and I both know thats a silly point.</p>


[/quote]

ur actually frightening at this point

Dezz chimed in after reading the points i made in the thread on TAGF about this debate. A thread where I factually proved that the numbers were eerily similiar.

Thats when Dezz came in here and said wow you would never think those numbers

Get your facts straight old man. Your tilting toward the obsession route again
[/quote]</p>


eerily similar?</p>


Brady has a win/loss record of 113-32. Brady has a TD to int ratio of 268 to 104. Thats almost 3 to 1.</p>


Eli has a win/loss record of 61-44. His TD to int ratio is 158 to 115 Eli's numbers are solid. Nothing to sneeze at. </p>


Brady's are all time great numbers. He's also an all time great winner. 113 wins and 32 losses. Maybe the greatest winner of all time.</p>


To say that Eli is in this class is "obsessive"</p>


</p>[/quote]go look at the numbers. i asked you at least three times if you thought it was shocking or impressive, and you never responded, so ill ask you again.

[Morehead State]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</P>


[/quote]</P>


You do realize that that is no longer the case. Although you may not agree, most sports are getting more and more lax with HOF voting it seems. luckily for football, we've had some pretty big names come thru the past few years.</P>


[/quote]</P>


Why can't we just have an honest discussion about our QB? He's a nice player. He needs to work on some things. But he is what he is.</P>


It can't be done here. Its got to be....</P>


"Not only is he not just a good QB.....He's a Hall of Famer!!!!!......The reason he throws into coverage is because........... he's........a gunslinger!!!! ........Yeah thats right....He's a gunslinger!!!!!!! .....Everybody loves a gunslinger!!!!!!!........He's in the same class as Tom Brady!!!!!!!........If you don't think so, you're an Eli hater!!!"</P>


Its nonsense. (BTW, Matt DID say after Eli's comments that he thought that Eli WAS in Tom Brady's class)</P>


</P>


[/quote]

again i said he did have similiar start to his career as brady did, numbers and record wise

its factual - not opinionated

being dramatic typically goes hand in hand with obsession
[/quote]</P>


Unfortunately this MB makes it tough to go back several weeks. I remember Dez saying that and you certainly might have regurgitated the same things.</P>


What I remember is your saying something like "I think he is" when responding to the conversation about Eli being in Brady's class.</P>


So now you are only saying that "statistically" he is. Is this right? Because if thats right you and I both know thats a silly point.</P>


[/quote]

statistically, record wise, has a ring, and continues to get better

your right, awful points
[/quote]</P>


Statistically: Not close</P>


Winning recordwise: Not close</P>


Rings: Not close</P>


And has gone from 10 to 14 and last year 25 ints in the past three years.</P>


All your points are proven false.</P>


[/quote]

again reading comprehension old man. Don't jump in the conversation a month later and try and tell me my points are false when u obviously didn't read any of them
[/quote]</P>


Your specific points.</P>


Stats are "eerily close"</P>


Brady has 268 TD's and 104 picks</P>


Eli has 158 TD's and 115 ints.</P>


NOT CLOSE</P>


</P>


Winning is close</P>


Brady has a winning % over 78. Thats an average of better than 12 wins per season.</P>


Eli is at around 58%. Thats an average slightly better than 9 wins per season</P>


NOT CLOSE</P>


</P>


Rings are similar</P>


Brady has 3</P>


Eli has 1</P>


NOT CLOSE</P>


</P>


Eli is continuing to get better</P>


He has gone from 10, to 14 to 25 ints in each of the last 3 years. And has missed the playoffs in the past 2 years for the first time. He's gotten worse. He's become more reckless. He's added yards but thats because we are losing more. His all time record when throwing for 300 yards in a game is 7-7.</P>


WRONG</P>


</P>


These are YOUR points, not mine.</P>


</P>

[dezzzR]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


OK..lets step back and look at this objectively. If someone was coming to this debate for the first time. Whichwould they say is the "obsessed" position?</p>


1. Eli is a good QB, even top 10, but doesn't protect the ball well enough.</p>


2. Eli is a future Hall of Famer and a gunslinger.</p>


</p>


</p>


[/quote]</p>


honestly MH....I think people calling him a hall of famer is kind of a rarity....
gunslinger, sure...we have that debate in here, but 1 person doesnt make it acommon argument. lol</p>


[/quote]</p>


Guys who got beat up in high school for lunch money, by definition can't be gunslingers.</p>


And Matt has repeatedly stated that he is a gunslinger who is headed for the Hall of Fame. All because he might put up Kerry Collins career numbers. Its nonsense. Its these extreem statements that I must challenge.</p>


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</p>


[/quote]id just like to add phil simms is a borderline hall of famer and eli is on track to break pretty much all of his records if he hasnt already. soo...
[/quote]</p>


The accumulation of stats is not much of a factor at all in Hall of Fame consideration.</p>


Hers a list of guys on the all time passing totals.</p>


#7- Vinny Testeverde</p>


#8- Drew Bledsoe</p>


#10- Kerry Collins</p>


#12- David Kreig</p>


#14- Boomer Esiason</p>


#19 Jim Everett</p>


#21- Steve DeBerg</p>


None would ever get any consideration for the Hall of Fame.</p>[/quote]i dont think hell make it...but i was just pointing out that its possible if simms was considered, and elis breaking all his records.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]


OK..lets step back and look at this objectively. If someone was coming to this debate for the first time. Whichwould they say is the "obsessed" position?</p>


1. Eli is a good QB, even top 10, but doesn't protect the ball well enough.</p>


2. Eli is a future Hall of Famer and a gunslinger.</p>


</p>


</p>


[/quote]</p>


honestly MH....I think people calling him a hall of famer is kind of a rarity....
gunslinger, sure...we have that debate in here, but 1 person doesnt make it acommon argument. lol</p>


[/quote]</p>


Guys who got beat up in high school for lunch money, by definition can't be gunslingers.</p>


And Matt has repeatedly stated that he is a gunslinger who is headed for the Hall of Fame. All because he might put up Kerry Collins career numbers. Its nonsense. Its these extreem statements that I must challenge.</p>


You don't go to the Hall of Fame unless you are one of the top players at your position in your era.</p>


[/quote]id just like to add phil simms is a borderline hall of famer and eli is on track to break pretty much all of his records if he hasnt already. soo...
[/quote]</p>


The accumulation of stats is not much of a factor at all in Hall of Fame consideration.</p>


Hers a list of guys on the all time passing totals.</p>


#7- Vinny Testeverde</p>


#8- Drew Bledsoe</p>


#10- Kerry Collins</p>


#12- David Kreig</p>


#14- Boomer Esiason</p>


#19 Jim Everett</p>


#21- Steve DeBerg</p>


None would ever get any consideration for the Hall of Fame.</p>[/quote]

A) your a day late and a dollar short on this debate. We were full fledge about this a month ago. Maybe you should of actually read it all then instead of picking today randomly to reopen it all..

B) 20 years - Testeverde, 14 years Bledsoe, 18 years Collins, 17 years Kreig, 18 years for Deberg

C) Boomer was a top QB in the league for a short period of time. Not sure why you would even bring him up

D) Jim Everett had a career record of 64-89

E) is for Eli. REalistically the next 4 years he could be in the top 10 all time and that would be in 11 years with a superbowl ring and a pretty impressive liftime record

[Morehead State]

Dez and Matt are trying to make the case that Eli is in the same class as Tom Brady and <U>I'm</U> the one who is supposedly obsessed with Eli.</P>


The MB's have gone crazy!!</P>