THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]yea daven would say the what Dr. K was charged wtih a irrelevent as to why he wouldnt' be given the death penalty


[/quote]

It was irrelevant to the conversation, we weren't talking about one particular case, we talking about the difference between second degree and first degree murder at the time.

Premeditation is the "key" difference as it is on the books, both CA and Dr.K committed murders in which there was clearly Premeditation (well based on the assumption on your part that CA is guilty even though she was found innocent) Thus they should both be dealt with in the same fashion.

the fact that Dr.K. got away with Second Degree because of the unusual nature of his particular case is irrelevant when talking about the system "overall"
[/quote]

again we weren't talking about the system over all

u were responding to me being in favor of the death penalty

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="lawl"]<blockquote>
<div>[img]/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img] lawl:</div>
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<div>[img]/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img] MattMeyerBud:</div>
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<div>[img]/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img] lawl:</div>
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<div>[img]/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img] RobCarpenter:</div>
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</p><blockquote>
<div>[img]/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img] jhamburg:</div>
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<div>[img]/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img] lawl:</div>
<div>How can anyone not be pleased/happy with his production? I haven't inferred that I'm not. The point is that TE is a very upgradeable position right now and has been for years. There's nothing special about Ballard's game and it can be easily replaced.</div></blockquote>It's more just your first comment, that he's just a body and wouldn't make many other rosters...that's the type of thing you would say about him at the beginning of the season, or that you'd say about someone like Danny Ware now. You have to give the guy some credit for actually producing in NFL games.</div></blockquote>


</p>


Oh, I get it now. When lawl says things like:</p>
<p dir="ltr">"he's just a body...he's the most easily replaced starter on this team....he couldn't even make other NFL teams...he's a nobody" </p>
<p dir="ltr">what lawl really means is:</p>
<p dir="ltr">"I'm not displeased with Ballard's play so far this season."</p>


Pass the pipe...I mean the rosetta stone...</p>


</p>


</p>


</p></div></blockquote>


The two things are completely independent of each other.</p>


I challenge you to name a starter that is more easily replaced than Ballard. I also challenge you to name 3 teams the guy would make, not start on, actually make.</p>


These thoughts that I believe to be factual have absolutely no bearing on the fact that I am not displeased with his play.</p>


I'll give you a similar scenario-</p>


Rewind to week 15 of last season. This example is sort of the opposite.</p>


"I was displeased with Eli's play."(at that time)</p>


"I, however, did not believe that(at that time) Eli was just a body, and did not think that he is easily replaced."</p>


Rewind to Michael Johnson's(the safety if you dont remember him) rookie year. The exact same things could be said of him</p>


"I was pleased with his play."</p>


"he's just a body...he's the most easily replaced starter on this team....he couldn't even make other NFL teams...he's a nobody"</p>


The statements are as shown, completely independent of each other.</p>


You should take things for what they are and not try to read much into it, since you really have no idea my full thought process. </p>


Classic case of what happens when you assume [img]/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]</p></div></blockquote>

Hynoski
</div></blockquote>Yup, the fullback, the only guy on the field more replaceable than Ballard. Speaks volumes</div></blockquote>


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you would be making a point if we weren't a pretty solid team ALL ACROSS THE BOARD.

Personally I think Ballard has been playin gbetter than most of our offensive line, mario, linebackers, and corners, and safteys

I mean I just don't get what ur point is?

I would take Ballard's production over alot of starting Giants right now.

<font size="5">Because we haven't sunk alot of money in him or have money inother places that makes Ballard less valuable? If anything that makes him MORE valuable. We could be paying 3.5 mil a year for a TE and getting the same production. But instead we're paying 400k</font></p>


<font size="5"><font size="3">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></font></p>


<font size="5"><font size="3">The paragraph in bold is a classic example. You're arguing against something that's not even being argued.</font>
</font></p>[/quote]

I think I clearly stated 3 sentences before that that I had no idea what point u were trying to make by saying he was replacable.

So i said why? Because we haven't sunk money into him? Because hes not a big name

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="dezzzR"]a perfect example of this is the red sox. had the won. if they win at least 5 out of those 10 games they lost at the beginning of the season, they make the playoffs. to say ohh its april, oh its september, the game doesnt mean as much is ridiculous.
[/quote]

again thats stupid. They could of taken care of business and had it in their own hands when it was down the wire - they didn't

theres a million what ifs that could of happened in both scenerios. Bottom line they knowing had their destiny in their own hands, like the Giants did, and didn't capitalize

[bigblue4417]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"] If your going to compare the two back to back, Philly two hsould of been won WAY more than the Titans game
[/quote]
I don't think you will find anyone who disagrees with you.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]


Here's a typical post by a good Giants fan:</p>


Eli played OK on Sunday and it sucks that bad breaks and tipped ballshad to determine the result of the game.</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>


Now here' the same post, when viewed through the twisted, skewed prism ofthe classicEli Cultists:</p>


</p>


<font size="6">Eli</font> played OK on Sunday and it <font size="6">sucks</font> that bad breaks and tipped <font size="6">balls</font> had to determine the result of the game.</p>


</p>


</p>


They see only what they want to see.</p>


</p>


[/quote]

LOL that typical Giants fan is right! the problem is you post only the Bold when you speak of him.

And MMB about the philly game and the whole team letting us down...I was speaking specifically of the 4th Quarter...yes even the offense let us down there....if they could have just killed some clock...but whatever it's over and done with.
[/quote]

again after a touchdown by the offense with 8 minutes to go it gave us 31 points and a 21 point lead. We then had the ball for two more possessions.

First possession took 2:30 off the clock and we had 3 first downs

By the time we got the ball back for the second possession it was a tie game and we tried to drive to win the game

Im not killing the offense for that
[/quote]</p>


Using your own logic, doesn't the offense "control its own destiny" with the ball in a tie game with a few minutes left.</p>


By your logic 'what happened earlier in the game' just like 'what happened earlier in the season' isn't especially relevant.</p>


Matt creed....."They had control of their destiny so there are no excuses"</p>[/quote]

no actually through a game theres ups and downs. The offense did its job for that game when it was all on the line. 21 point wtih 8 minutes to go? Hell they had one possession with the lead within that last minutes and they were able to burn 2:30 off. They tried killing the clock. they ha 3 first downs on that drive. Defense lost this game

Either way - i've still yet to hear a reason why the Titans game was a bigger let down than Philly 2 and why we were suppose to win that game so much more in comparison to the philly 2 game?

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]

Using your own logic, doesn't the offense "control its own destiny" with the ball in a tie game with a few minutes left.</p>


By your logic 'what happened earlier in the game' just like 'what happened earlier in the season' isn't especially relevant.</p>


Matt creed....."They had control of their destiny so there are no excuses"</p>[/quote]

Yes Morehead, maybe not with Matt but with me that is true, The defense has saved our team before, in that game the defense was clearly floundering in the 4th Q, it then becomes the JOB of the Offense to overcome that, this is a team game...our entire TEAM let us down in that 4thQ I don't blame one person or another because there were too many mistakes and no one stepped up to overcome/make up for them.

It's one thing when one player does something stupid to cost you the game, it's another thing when the whole team breaks down.
[/quote]

i just disagree... the offense's job on their possession to try and run the clock out and make philly burn timeouts. Thats the play to make.

so because we lost all momentum because of one of the worst collapses EVER seen that we are now tied under 2 minutes and we didnt' score? I just find that weak

Game was gift wrapped

[DavenIII]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"]again we weren't talking about the system over all

u were responding to me being in favor of the death penalty
[/quote]

we were past that, I talked about how I see both sides of it, the Death Penalty could save tax payer money, Jailing people cost Tax payers a TON of money every year and America has more people in jail then most other countries percentage wise, that said the semi-recent discover of DNA Evidence has freed quite a few innocent people that may have been killed had the death penalty been allowed in their states....so I see both sides.

to which you responded something like....But CA she definitely deserved it you know right?

That caused the topic switch, I went on to discuss the topic of how you arrive at the death penalty as a punishment....the burden of proof required, the conviction, the difference between first and second degree murder charges etc etc....

all of which you pretty much ignored....and kept pressing on about how CA "Deserved" it but you never explained "why" as far as I can tell you think she deserved it (even though she was proven Innocent) because she thought pigs fly or something....you have no basis for it, besides your emotional response behind what you "think" she did.

I broght Dr.K up to parallel the situation, to show you someone else who committed a similar crime in the eyes of the law, meaning a premeditate murder(s) and I used him because I knew you wouldn't have wanted him to get the Death Penalty because I can tell that you would see the crimes differently, but in the fashion that I brought it up for discussion the two (supposed) crimes are actually quite similar...but you then latched on to the actual outcome of the Dr.K. case....which...is irrelevant...we never got an outcome to the CA case (except we did she was innocent) thus we can't compare the sentences.

the point I was making all along though was that you have no real basis to say CA deserved the Death Penalty but Dr.K doesn't...you don't have a logical reason behind those comments it's all a gut feeling on your part...and gut feelings shouldn't be what decide whether a person is put to death or not.......in my opinion.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"] If your going to compare the two back to back, Philly two hsould of been won WAY more than the Titans game
[/quote]
I don't think you will find anyone who disagrees with you.
[/quote]

if thats true then why would anybody reference the Titans game?

Story of last year was Philly 2 and the collapse of the defense

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]again we weren't talking about the system over all

u were responding to me being in favor of the death penalty
[/quote]

we were past that, I talked about how I see both sides of it, the Death Penalty could save tax payer money, Jailing people cost Tax payers a TON of money every year and America has more people in jail then most other countries percentage wise, that said the semi-recent discover of DNA Evidence has freed quite a few innocent people that may have been killed had the death penalty been allowed in their states....so I see both sides.

to which you responded something like....But CA she definitely deserved it you know right?

To which is went on to discuss the topic of how you arrive at the death penalty as a punishment....the burden of proof required, the conviction, the difference between first and second degree murder charges etc etc....

all of which you pretty much ignored....and kept pressing on about how CA "Deserved" it but you never explained "why" as far as I can tell you think she deserved it (even though she was proven Innocent) because she thought pigs fly or something....you have no basis for it, besides your emotional response behind what you "think" she did.

I broght Dr.K up to parallel the situation, to show you someone else who committed a similar crime in the eyes of the law, meaning a premeditate murder(s) and I used him because I knew you wouldn't have wanted him to get the Death Penalty because I can tell that you would see the crimes differently, but in the fashion that I brought it up for discussion the two (supposed) crimes are actually quite similar...but you then latched on to the actual outcome of the Dr.K. case....which...is irrelevant...we never got an outcome to the CA case (except we did she was innocent) thus we can compare.

the point I was making all along though was that you have no real basis to say CA deserved the Death Penalty but Dr.K doesn't...you don't have a logical reason behind those comments it's all a gut feeling on your part...and gut feelings shouldn't be what decide whether a person is put to death or not.......in my opinion.
[/quote]

dude ur crazy...

we weren't past it at all. You responded to me saying that had she been found guilty she should of gotten the chair. I firmly believe with the circumstance it would of been murder one.

You came back with this crazy argument about how theres no way to differentiate who should get the charir and u mentioned Dr.K situation.

Thats exactly how it happened.

And I agree. But i have a friend that works at NJ state prison who does security there. He lets me know real stories. You wouldn't believe the amount of deaths that happen by these scum. I do agree it should be reviewd. It would have to be clear cut cases and what not and not just these hick states. I would imagine that the amount of innocent people being put to death dramatically decreased as time went on and we had DNA evidence and there were less racism.

Again for ur debate u want withhold the fact that u think theres a good chance CA would of gotten something else besides murder 1. I disagree. Murder 1 and Murder 2 are similiar to the ways that manslaugher is similiar. The difference? Murder one u can be put to death in some states or get life, manslaughter u can get 6 months

[dezzzR]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"]a perfect example of this is the red sox. had the won. if they win at least 5 out of those 10 games they lost at the beginning of the season, they make the playoffs. to say ohh its april, oh its september, the game doesnt mean as much is ridiculous.
[/quote]

<u>again thats stupid.</u> They could of taken care of business and had it in their own hands when it was down the wire - they didn't

theres a million what ifs that could of happened in both scenerios. Bottom line they knowing had their destiny in their own hands, like the Giants did, and didn't capitalize
[/quote] how is it stupid? if they win those games, and the season plays out the way it did, even with the huge meltdown at the end, THEY STILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. yes or no? (dont you dare pull a mh and not answer!)thus proving all games are important.
i know what youre saying, a game late in the season to get in the playoffs is bigger than the titan game or any other game, BUT if the giants won any one of those games it doesnt have to be a "MUST" win. like you said we control our own destiny