1. #121691

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!



    Eli: A Giant among men.</p>

    It's eerie. Way too eerie.</p>

    Giants-Patriots,
    Super Bowl 42, fourth quarter, New England up 14-10, 1:15 to play,
    third and five, Giants' 44. Eli Manning, pressured, looks downfield for
    No. 85.</p>

    Giants-Patriots, Sunday in Foxboro, fourth quarter,
    New England up 20-17, 1:07 to play, third and 10, Giants' 39. Eli
    Manning, pressured, looks downfield for No. 85.</p>

    There's more.</p>

    Super
    Bowl 42: David Tyree hauls in the highly unlikely Velcro Catch with
    Rodney Harrison in close coverage. Gain of 32. First and 10 at the
    Patriots' 24. Fifty-nine seconds left, timeout Giants.</p>

    Sunday
    in Foxboro: Jake Ballard hauls in a one-handed catch, bending back with
    Tracy White in close coverage. Gain of 28. First and 10 at the
    Patriots' 33. Fifty-nine seconds left, clock running.</p>

    And more.</p>

    Super
    Bowl 42: Four plays after the drive-saving Tyree catch, Manning coolly
    finds Plaxico Burress in the left side of the end zone for a touchdown.
    Giants by three, with 35 seconds left.</p>

    Sunday in Foxboro:
    Four plays after the drive-saving Ballard catch, Manning coolly finds
    Ballard in the left side of the end zone for a touchdown. Giants by
    four, with 15 seconds left.</p>

    And finally ...</p>

    Super
    Bowl 42: After the Patriots return the kickoff 17 yards, Tom Brady
    throws three desperation passes to no avail. The Giants upset New
    England 17-14.</p>

    Sunday in Foxboro: After the Patriots return
    the kickoff 17 yards, Brady throws two desperation passes to no avail.
    The Giants upset New England 24-20.</p>

    "It's hard not to think
    about it,'' Manning told me from the locker room, after his biggest
    victory, all things considered, since that Super Bowl. "But in a way,
    before then, it was the complete opposite. Last time, it was the
    Patriots giving us the ball with three minutes left, up four. Today,
    after we took the four-point lead with three minutes to go, we're
    handing the ball to Tom Brady. And that's not a very good feeling.''</p>

    He's
    right. Four seasons ago, Brady threw a touchdown pass to Randy Moss
    with 2:45 left to give New England a four-point lead. And Sunday,
    Manning threw a touchdown pass to Mario Manningham with 3:07 remaining
    to give the Giants a four-point lead.</p>

    What made this Giant
    drive so interesting -- and, in some ways, tougher for Manning -- is
    that it came on the road instead of a neutral field, with noise and some
    of his mainstays out, hurt. Two guys Manning never heard of 20 months
    ago, Victor Cruz and Ballard, were his go-to receivers on this drive.
    And to go to Ballard twice ... it shows not only how undervalued the
    6-6, 275-pound Ballard was coming out of Ohio State after being a
    blocking tight end and going undrafted, but also how adaptable and
    user-friendly the excuse-free Manning is. </p>

    The way he
    managed his receivers on this drive, and the comfort he showed with all
    of them, shows why Manning is such a terrific player (and why, wherever
    he watched the game Sunday, the GM who dealt for him, Ernie Accorsi, had
    to be nodding knowingly at his cool demeanor and laser accuracy) and
    why it surprised no one with the Giants that he was seven of 11 with two
    touchdown passes in the last seven minutes of the game.</p>

    On
    the throw to Ballard, Manning said it was a simple seam route and
    Ballard got over the linebacker, White, and he thought there was a tiny
    window to make the throw. What he didn't see was Patriot safety Patrick
    Chung charging into the play almost the way Harrison did four years ago.
    The ball was high, a smidge to Ballard's left, and he had to reach for
    it awkwardly, bringing it in with one hand to the other. A great catch.
    Not a Tyree catch, but what is?</p>

    "Huge,'' Manning said. "Jake's got great hands. He made a great catch there.''</p>

    Four
    plays later, at the Patriot one, the Giants had a third-and-goal. No
    timeouts left and 19 seconds to play. "You almost have to throw it
    there,'' Manning said. "If you run, and you don't make it, then you run
    your field goal unit on the field while you're unpiling, and it's chaos.
    Their guys laying on our guys, untangling the pile. You might not get
    the field goal off. So you've got to throw.''</p>

    "You audible?'' I asked. "Or was it the called play you ran?''</p>

    "No audible,'' he said. "Just a play-action, off the run. We sold it, and I saw Jake with a step on his guy.''</p>

    Not
    to dramatize the throw, but FOX had a camera in the corner of the end
    zone focused on Manning's throw. There was no wavering. In the Super
    Bowl, he had to place the ball deftly over a New England corner into
    Burress' hands. Here, Manning had to rip it, and he did. It was a
    perfect dart.</p>

    Manning is not his brother, the precision
    player and the prototype. But I believe Eli is a better clutch player
    than Peyton. No knock on Peyton. But look at the moments Eli's had. His
    2007 postseason is one of the best any quarterback has ever played,
    winning three on the road (including beating Favre at Lambeau in
    minus-18 weather) and then upsetting the 18-0 Patriots in the Super
    Bowl. And Sunday, with 80- and 85-yard drives in the final seven minutes
    to beat Bill Belichick and Brady.</p>

    <font color="#0000FF">They don't make many like Eli Manning, and if you're a Giants' partisan, you've got to be thrilled he's yours.</font></p><div style="overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; border: medium none;">
    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1d3BKtOxD
    </div>

  2. #121692
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="Morehead State"]

    In the past 10 minutes we've had Scrappy quote Eli's TD and yardage stats from last year. We've had Matt quote Eli's TD and completion % stats from last year and then had them both accuse me of relying too much on stats.</p>


    I am the only one in this argument who has yet to refer to a single stat.</p>[/quote]

    i guess espnboston.com doesn't use intercpetions as a stat?
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  3. #121693
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Westfield, MA
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]


    In the past 10 minutes we've had Scrappy quote Eli's TD and yardage stats from last year. We've had Matt quote Eli's TD and completion % stats from last year and then had them both accuse me of relying too much on stats.</P>


    I am the only one in this argument who has yet to refer to a single stat.</P>


    [/quote]

    That doesn't absolve you of anything, you are formulating your opinion based upon statistics instead of watching Eli, that much is CLEAR...we are talking stats because it's the only thing you understand, whether you actually reference them or not is irrelevant.
    [/quote]</P>


    Here is the case I made just a half hour ago. Maybe you can tell me how I use stats and maybe you can tell me how this doesn't apply exclusively to "what I see on the field"</P>


    </P>


    Throwing off your back foot is not a mistake. Its neccessary in the NFL.</P>


    He is better in the pocket. He is moving in the pocket to create more time and he has resisted (for the most part) the impulse to throw early into coverage before the play has sufficiently developed. He has thrown more balls away. He has taken more sacks if the situation calls for it. he has even dumped it off more when WR's downfield aren't open.</P>


    I call that "significant improvement"</P>


    Your view is that he's just "luckier". Which in my opinion is foolish</P>
    Get well soon 80.

  4. #121694

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="ny06"][/quote]
    He flinches like such a *****. That is so ****ing funny!!!
    [/quote]hILARIOUS

  5. #121695
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    60,564

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]


    In the past 10 minutes we've had Scrappy quote Eli's TD and yardage stats from last year. We've had Matt quote Eli's TD and completion % stats from last year and then had them both accuse me of relying too much on stats.</p>


    I am the only one in this argument who has yet to refer to a single stat.</p>


    [/quote]

    That doesn't absolve you of anything, you are formulating your opinion based upon statistics instead of watching Eli, that much is CLEAR...we are talking stats because it's the only thing you understand, whether you actually reference them or not is irrelevant.
    [/quote]</p>


    Here is the case I made just a half hour ago. Maybe you can tell me how I use stats and maybe you can tell me how this doesn't apply exclusively to "what I see on the field"</p>


    </p>


    Throwing off your back foot is not a mistake. Its neccessary in the NFL.</p>


    He is better in the pocket. He is moving in the pocket to create more time and he has resisted (for the most part) the impulse to throw early into coverage before the play has sufficiently developed. He has thrown more balls away. He has taken more sacks if the situation calls for it. he has even dumped it off more when WR's downfield aren't open.</p>


    I call that "significant improvement"</p>


    Your view is that he's just "luckier". Which in my opinion is foolish</p>[/quote]

    i already explained that to you

    per usual you ignore the basic FACTS of that I gave you. And for most of that i didn't even need stats. And I don't agree that he is luckier, i just think hes not as unlucky. Hes still had dropped balls that went for tips in the air - they just haven't been intercepted
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  6. #121696
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Westfield, MA
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    44,809

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]


    In the past 10 minutes we've had Scrappy quote Eli's TD and yardage stats from last year. We've had Matt quote Eli's TD and completion % stats from last year and then had them both accuse me of relying too much on stats.</P>


    I am the only one in this argument who has yet to refer to a single stat.</P>


    [/quote]

    That doesn't absolve you of anything, you are formulating your opinion based upon statistics instead of watching Eli, that much is CLEAR...we are talking stats because it's the only thing you understand, whether you actually reference them or not is irrelevant.
    [/quote]</P>


    Here is the case I made just a half hour ago. Maybe you can tell me how I use stats and maybe you can tell me how this doesn't apply exclusively to "what I see on the field"</P>


    </P>


    Throwing off your back foot is not a mistake. Its neccessary in the NFL.</P>


    He is better in the pocket. He is moving in the pocket to create more time and he has resisted (for the most part) the impulse to throw early into coverage before the play has sufficiently developed. He has thrown more balls away. He has taken more sacks if the situation calls for it. he has even dumped it off more when WR's downfield aren't open.</P>


    I call that "significant improvement"</P>


    Your view is that he's just "luckier". Which in my opinion is foolish</P>


    [/quote]



    . And I don't agree that he is luckier, i just think hes not as unlucky.
    [/quote]</P>


    Thank you for this Matt. My day is made.</P>
    Get well soon 80.

  7. #121697
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    60,564

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]


    In the past 10 minutes we've had Scrappy quote Eli's TD and yardage stats from last year. We've had Matt quote Eli's TD and completion % stats from last year and then had them both accuse me of relying too much on stats.</p>


    I am the only one in this argument who has yet to refer to a single stat.</p>


    [/quote]

    That doesn't absolve you of anything, you are formulating your opinion based upon statistics instead of watching Eli, that much is CLEAR...we are talking stats because it's the only thing you understand, whether you actually reference them or not is irrelevant.
    [/quote]</p>


    Here is the case I made just a half hour ago. Maybe you can tell me how I use stats and maybe you can tell me how this doesn't apply exclusively to "what I see on the field"</p>


    </p>


    Throwing off your back foot is not a mistake. Its neccessary in the NFL.</p>


    He is better in the pocket. He is moving in the pocket to create more time and he has resisted (for the most part) the impulse to throw early into coverage before the play has sufficiently developed. He has thrown more balls away. He has taken more sacks if the situation calls for it. he has even dumped it off more when WR's downfield aren't open.</p>


    I call that "significant improvement"</p>


    Your view is that he's just "luckier". Which in my opinion is foolish</p>


    [/quote]



    . And I don't agree that he is luckier, i just think hes not as unlucky.
    [/quote]</p>


    Thank you for this Matt. My day is made.</p>[/quote]

    true because i'm wrong. We didn't set an NFL record of tipped balls for INTs in one season
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  8. #121698

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="bigblue4417"]

    Eli: A Giant among men.</p>

    It's eerie. Way too eerie.</p>

    Giants-Patriots,
    Super Bowl 42, fourth quarter, New England up 14-10, 1:15 to play,
    third and five, Giants' 44. Eli Manning, pressured, looks downfield for
    No. 85.</p>

    Giants-Patriots, Sunday in Foxboro, fourth quarter,
    New England up 20-17, 1:07 to play, third and 10, Giants' 39. Eli
    Manning, pressured, looks downfield for No. 85.</p>

    There's more.</p>

    Super
    Bowl 42: David Tyree hauls in the highly unlikely Velcro Catch with
    Rodney Harrison in close coverage. Gain of 32. First and 10 at the
    Patriots' 24. Fifty-nine seconds left, timeout Giants.</p>

    Sunday
    in Foxboro: Jake Ballard hauls in a one-handed catch, bending back with
    Tracy White in close coverage. Gain of 28. First and 10 at the
    Patriots' 33. Fifty-nine seconds left, clock running.</p>

    And more.</p>

    Super
    Bowl 42: Four plays after the drive-saving Tyree catch, Manning coolly
    finds Plaxico Burress in the left side of the end zone for a touchdown.
    Giants by three, with 35 seconds left.</p>

    Sunday in Foxboro:
    Four plays after the drive-saving Ballard catch, Manning coolly finds
    Ballard in the left side of the end zone for a touchdown. Giants by
    four, with 15 seconds left.</p>

    And finally ...</p>

    Super
    Bowl 42: After the Patriots return the kickoff 17 yards, Tom Brady
    throws three desperation passes to no avail. The Giants upset New
    England 17-14.</p>

    Sunday in Foxboro: After the Patriots return
    the kickoff 17 yards, Brady throws two desperation passes to no avail.
    The Giants upset New England 24-20.</p>

    "It's hard not to think
    about it,'' Manning told me from the locker room, after his biggest
    victory, all things considered, since that Super Bowl. "But in a way,
    before then, it was the complete opposite. Last time, it was the
    Patriots giving us the ball with three minutes left, up four. Today,
    after we took the four-point lead with three minutes to go, we're
    handing the ball to Tom Brady. And that's not a very good feeling.''</p>

    He's
    right. Four seasons ago, Brady threw a touchdown pass to Randy Moss
    with 2:45 left to give New England a four-point lead. And Sunday,
    Manning threw a touchdown pass to Mario Manningham with 3:07 remaining
    to give the Giants a four-point lead.</p>

    What made this Giant
    drive so interesting -- and, in some ways, tougher for Manning -- is
    that it came on the road instead of a neutral field, with noise and some
    of his mainstays out, hurt. Two guys Manning never heard of 20 months
    ago, Victor Cruz and Ballard, were his go-to receivers on this drive.
    And to go to Ballard twice ... it shows not only how undervalued the
    6-6, 275-pound Ballard was coming out of Ohio State after being a
    blocking tight end and going undrafted, but also how adaptable and
    user-friendly the excuse-free Manning is. </p>

    The way he
    managed his receivers on this drive, and the comfort he showed with all
    of them, shows why Manning is such a terrific player (and why, wherever
    he watched the game Sunday, the GM who dealt for him, Ernie Accorsi, had
    to be nodding knowingly at his cool demeanor and laser accuracy) and
    why it surprised no one with the Giants that he was seven of 11 with two
    touchdown passes in the last seven minutes of the game.</p>

    On
    the throw to Ballard, Manning said it was a simple seam route and
    Ballard got over the linebacker, White, and he thought there was a tiny
    window to make the throw. What he didn't see was Patriot safety Patrick
    Chung charging into the play almost the way Harrison did four years ago.
    The ball was high, a smidge to Ballard's left, and he had to reach for
    it awkwardly, bringing it in with one hand to the other. A great catch.
    Not a Tyree catch, but what is?</p>

    "Huge,'' Manning said. "Jake's got great hands. He made a great catch there.''</p>

    Four
    plays later, at the Patriot one, the Giants had a third-and-goal. No
    timeouts left and 19 seconds to play. "You almost have to throw it
    there,'' Manning said. "If you run, and you don't make it, then you run
    your field goal unit on the field while you're unpiling, and it's chaos.
    Their guys laying on our guys, untangling the pile. You might not get
    the field goal off. So you've got to throw.''</p>

    "You audible?'' I asked. "Or was it the called play you ran?''</p>

    "No audible,'' he said. "Just a play-action, off the run. We sold it, and I saw Jake with a step on his guy.''</p>

    Not
    to dramatize the throw, but FOX had a camera in the corner of the end
    zone focused on Manning's throw. There was no wavering. In the Super
    Bowl, he had to place the ball deftly over a New England corner into
    Burress' hands. Here, Manning had to rip it, and he did. It was a
    perfect dart.</p>

    Manning is not his brother, the precision
    player and the prototype. But I believe Eli is a better clutch player
    than Peyton. No knock on Peyton. But look at the moments Eli's had. His
    2007 postseason is one of the best any quarterback has ever played,
    winning three on the road (including beating Favre at Lambeau in
    minus-18 weather) and then upsetting the 18-0 Patriots in the Super
    Bowl. And Sunday, with 80- and 85-yard drives in the final seven minutes
    to beat Bill Belichick and Brady.</p>

    <font color="#0000FF">They don't make many like Eli Manning, and if you're a Giants' partisan, you've got to be thrilled he's yours.</font></p><div style="overflow: hidden; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: transparent; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; border: medium none;">
    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1d3BKtOxD
    </div>[/quote]Great read-thanks Lando

  9. #121699
    All-Pro
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="Morehead State"]

    Here is the case I made just a half hour ago. Maybe you can tell me how I use stats and maybe you can tell me how this doesn't apply exclusively to "what I see on the field"</p>


    </p>


    Throwing off your back foot is not a mistake. Its neccessary in the NFL.</p>


    He is better in the pocket. He is moving in the pocket to create more time and he has resisted (for the most part) the impulse to throw early into coverage before the play has sufficiently developed. He has thrown more balls away. He has taken more sacks if the situation calls for it. he has even dumped it off more when WR's downfield aren't open.</p>


    I call that "significant improvement"</p>


    Your view is that he's just "luckier". Which in my opinion is foolish</p>[/quote]

    there is nothing wrong with the argument you make here except for it's not true when you watch him play, I'd love for it to be, but his movement in the pocket, his impulse to throw early and into coverage before the play has sufficiently developed has not improved substantially, it's pretty much at the same place it was last year, he hasn't seemed to be taking any more sacks or throwing the ball away any more then was evident last year and he hasn't been dumping it off in more situations.

    The only reasonable explanation for why you "think" these things have happened (even though they haven't) is because you are looking at results (in one case statistics) and you are convincing yourself these improvements have taken place because it's the simplest solution (which yes is often the correct one) but in this case it's more complicated then that, my opinion is not that he has just been luckier this year (although he has been to some extent) it's that the players around him have improved, you refuse to believe that....but it only makes sense that young receivers like Nicks Manningham and Cruz will make large improvements there first couple years in the NFL and then their improvement will taper off...just like anything else, Eli is already close to as good as he's going to get he might get slightly better year to year...but the massive increase to the results you are noticing this year....that's coming from the team in general...not some massive or "significant" improvement in Eli's play.

    I can reference Bowling as a parallel as I tend to sometimes since I could be a (and this is a fact not just something I'm saying I do qualify) Professional Bowler.

    when I was just starting my average would jump every year, 140 to 170, next year was 170 to 190, nowadays...I'm going from 215-216 If that, the better you get the less room you have for improvement.

    Nicks Manningham and Cruz are making "significant" Improvements...and in doing so it makes Eli "look" better since the results come from both sides combining, but Eli isn't not getting "much" better...and he wasn't "that" bad last year...if you actually watch him instead of just taking into account the results (like you do) then you would notice that.

  10. #121700
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]


    In the past 10 minutes we've had Scrappy quote Eli's TD and yardage stats from last year. We've had Matt quote Eli's TD and completion % stats from last year and then had them both accuse me of relying too much on stats.</P>


    I am the only one in this argument who has yet to refer to a single stat.</P>


    [/quote]

    That doesn't absolve you of anything, you are formulating your opinion based upon statistics instead of watching Eli, that much is CLEAR...we are talking stats because it's the only thing you understand, whether you actually reference them or not is irrelevant.
    [/quote]</P>


    Here is the case I made just a half hour ago. Maybe you can tell me how I use stats and maybe you can tell me how this doesn't apply exclusively to "what I see on the field"</P>


    </P>


    Throwing off your back foot is not a mistake. Its neccessary in the NFL.</P>


    He is better in the pocket. He is moving in the pocket to create more time and he has resisted (for the most part) the impulse to throw early into coverage before the play has sufficiently developed. He has thrown more balls away. He has taken more sacks if the situation calls for it. he has even dumped it off more when WR's downfield aren't open.</P>


    I call that "significant improvement"</P>


    Your view is that he's just "luckier". Which in my opinion is foolish</P>


    [/quote]



    . And I don't agree that he is luckier, i just think hes not as unlucky.
    [/quote]</P>


    Thank you for this Matt. My day is made.</P>


    [/quote]

    true because i'm wrong. We didn't set an NFL record of tipped balls for INTs in one season
    [/quote]</P>


    Another one of your stats?</P>
    Get well soon 80.

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