1. #122051
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="JPizzack"]

    [quote user="lttaylor56"]Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

    If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
    [/quote]</p>


    well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>[/quote]

    na i disagree...

    Joe Pa SHOULD have did exactly what he did and then the school should of notified the authorities. Hes a football coach its not his place. Once he saw they did nothing is when he should stepped up.

    WHat if he did call the cops and it turns out that Sundusky was innocent? It wasn't his place , he wasn't a witness, he wasn't a judge and jury. Make no mistake about it its a corporate mentality that he should of over ridden once he saw nothing was done.
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  2. #122052
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="shocknaweny"]

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="shocknaweny"]I gotta say next season I WILL be voting for smaller benches...U need help on your team because of injuries and u can't get it cause even back-ups are on peoples benches....very frustrating !!![/quote]

    Michael Bush is one of the rare backups that wil always make a roster. Not for nothing, thats your bad for not targeting him as a McFad owner
    [/quote]</p>


    </p>


    true nuff''' but I will still be voting for smaller BN....the waiver wire is basically meaningless this season.</p>


    </p>[/quote]

    i disagree that haveing a ton of talent in the FA pool would make the waiver wire more meaningful. IT will just be a scape goat for weaker players who make bad decisions and don't draft good
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  3. #122053
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="JPizzack"]sorry, went to lunch and didnt respond to any of this.


    Daven, wouldnt this be an example of protection under the whole good samaritan laws?[/quote]</p>



    </p>


    In my experience nothing is black and white, you can use the good samaritan law to support your claim that you did nothing wrong...but that doesn't pay you're legal fee's if the opposing party decides to go after you.
    </p>


    [/quote]</p>


    i dont know...
    I mean i would understand that people are concerned for their jobs, but the seriousness of the situation? cmon...
    if you got fired over something like that? that's wrongful termination, and then everything goes to the courts anyway....investigations, and someone's going down for the crimes if they happened. There is no debate in my book.

    What I dont understand is why Matt is saying the wr coach, and Paterno did the right thing by reporting it to school officials. Why is it a business decision? Why was that the right thing at all? i dont even get that...

    WHAT IN THE **** does the school have to do child molestation allegations??!?!
    WHO IN THE **** does someone think they are to make a "judgement call" on this kind of thing?!?!
    Everyone from the guy who saw, paterno who made a bad call and only escalating it to his higher up, the AD for doing nothing upon hearing it, and the janitor for escalating it and also not reporting it....they are all guilty of withholding this from the police. like, i cant even see this any other way. You dont go to the cops? then youre withholding information. What in gods name makes it the AD's responsibility, moreso than it was the 2 people under him who knew the same information?!!? They are humans! they are bound by the law all the same. </p>


    [/quote]

    well like I said before why was it even brough to Paterno? It was brought becuase this guy was notifying his boss. Theres just a protocal to inform the top people of situations like that so they can know. Where Joe dropped the ball was letting it just go away. He did what he was suppose to at first, but after nothing happened he should of pressed the issue or gone to the police himself

    But not for nothing it wasn't Joe's place to go to the cops. He didn't see it, hes not the one that should notify the authorities on behalf of Penn State. He morally **** the bed by forgetting about it.

    Your asking what the school has to do with it, well it was put through the process once the guy who saw it happen went to PAterno.

    Why was it on Paterno at first? Thats my question to you.
    [/quote]</p>


    Protocol?</p>


    **** that, a bunch of kids got molested by some sick pervert.</p>


    The police should have been notified the second that pos McQueary caught Sandusky in the showers molesting that poor kid. </p>


    For an ivy league, there a bunch of idiots over there. When did common sence fly out the window? Call the Police!!! A crime was commited...</p>


    [/quote]

    a) <font color="#000000">yes protocal. Its an allegation</font>. Joe Pa didn't see it himself. For all he knows this guy could be ****ing crazy or have some personal vendetta against Sandusky and it could all be completely false. He went to his superiors, the people that ultimately make these decisions and notify the police and NCAA. And your talking in hindsight, put urself in the moment

    b) I agree and I put that on the witness. Why he chose Joe Pa as a better person to bring this to than the police is beyond me. Thats what i've been trying to say, that guy is basically just as bad a Sandusky.

    C) A crime was alledgedly committed. And when something like this happens the protocal is that it keeps being reported to the person above until the top guy has it and then they collectively notify the cops or FBI or whatever. Joe PA initially did the right thing. When nothing happened and it was swept under the rug - THATS where he **** the bed.
    [/quote]</p>


    It sounds more of a cover up then protocol. </p>


    Penn State tried to police this situation themselves, but what happened it came back and bit them in the ***!!!</p>


    </p>[/quote]

    your absolutely right, thats what it did turn into. Once it became that is where I put blame and shame on Joe Pa. Once it was just swept under the rug, he became an enabler for that and that makes him just as guilty.

    But I can't say the way he handled it at first was wrong. Had the AD done his job NOBODY would of been looking for Joe Pa's head
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  4. #122054

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="JPizzack"]

    [quote user="lttaylor56"]Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

    If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
    [/quote]</p>


    well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>[/quote]I know. I'm trying to separate emotion from following procedure myself here. This one tugs at my heart strings, but Paterno did do his job by the letter of his "job description."

  5. #122055
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="lttaylor56"][quote user="JPizzack"]

    [quote user="lttaylor56"]Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

    If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
    [/quote]</p>


    well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>[/quote]I know. I'm trying to separate emotion from following procedure myself here. This one tugs at my heart strings, but Paterno did do his job by the letter of his "job description."
    [/quote]

    once he saw nothing being done - for him to sit back and accept that is where he went wrong
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

  6. #122056
    All-Pro dezzzR's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="JPizzack"]

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"]
    another guy HEARD it happened.
    [/quote]</p>


    dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


    not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>[/quote]

    Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

    But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

    But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
    [/quote]if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.
    [/quote]
    You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
    [/quote]listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

    im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.
    [/quote]

    no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
    [/quote] its easy to say without a kid and family to support.
    [/quote]

    no its easy to say whenever

    money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

    That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
    [/quote]like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.
    [/quote]

    <u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

    Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

    On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

    IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
    [/quote]totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

    and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!
    [/quote]

    its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


    <u>Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? </u>Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.

    The Coach was a wtiness in a crime.
    [/quote]IT IS totally irrelevant because a car accident isnt a crime. AND if he did witness the car accident he CAN leave if he likes, he doesnt have to stay around.

    I would after i round housed the perp to the face, and if joe didnt take action, then i would. we dont know what the wr coach was thinking or doing. for all we know he did intervene when he saw it happening,.

  7. #122057

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="lttaylor56"][quote user="JPizzack"]

    [quote user="lttaylor56"]Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

    If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
    [/quote]</p>


    well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </p>[/quote]I know. I'm trying to separate emotion from following procedure myself here. This one tugs at my heart strings, but Paterno did do his job by the letter of his "job description."
    [/quote]

    once he saw nothing being done - for him to sit back and accept that is where he went wrong
    [/quote]Yes-he should of questioned his superior as to the status of the situation

  8. #122058
    All-Pro JPizzack's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="JPizzack"]


    [quote user="lttaylor56"]Paterno did do the right thing, didn't he...from a procedural standpoint? He followed protocol and reported the incident to his senior. Just like in the military chain of command.

    If we want to say he didn't act correctly from a personal standpoint, that's a diff story, but everyone's different. Personally, I would not of been able to control myself from pulluing sandusky off of him and giving him a few good wacks.
    [/quote]</P>


    well, i guess my overall point is that ethics and human nature should always override any type of "procedural chain" at a school or business when it comes to allegations as important as these. </P>


    [/quote]

    na i disagree...

    Joe Pa SHOULD have did exactly what he did and then the school should of notified the authorities. Hes a football coach its not his place. Once he saw they did nothing is when he should stepped up.

    WHat if he did call the cops and it turns out that Sundusky was innocent? It wasn't his place , he wasn't a witness, he wasn't a judge and jury. Make no mistake about it its a corporate mentality that he should of over ridden once he saw nothing was done.
    [/quote]</P>


    Well I can get on board with the fact that Paterno probably should have told this other guy it needed to be reported to the police. I'm not saying it's FAIR that it fell on Joe Pa's lap, but.....what happened, happened....and I dont feel it was handled the right way at all.
    What happens OFF the football field is of no concern to the Athletic Director (well sure it's a concern of his as a "boss"), but child molestation? i could give 2 ****s what my boss says or does or thinks about what i personally do upon hearing of a crime like this!! You wanna fire me? fine, thenI'll drag you into it too...</P>
    Oderint Dum Metuant

  9. #122059
    All-Pro dezzzR's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="JPizzack"]

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"]
    another guy HEARD it happened.
    [/quote]</p>


    dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


    not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>[/quote]

    Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

    But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

    But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
    [/quote]if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.
    [/quote]
    You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
    [/quote]listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

    im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.
    [/quote]

    no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
    [/quote] its easy to say without a kid and family to support.
    [/quote]

    no its easy to say whenever

    money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

    That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
    [/quote]like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.
    [/quote]

    <u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

    Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

    On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

    IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
    [/quote]totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

    and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!
    [/quote]

    its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


    Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.
    <u>
    The Coach was a wtiness in a crime. </u>
    [/quote]being a witness doesnt make you the perp, or just as guilty. at the end of the day we KNOW the wr coach told SOMEONE with enough power to do something about it.

  10. #122060
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="JPizzack"]

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"]
    another guy HEARD it happened.
    [/quote]</p>


    dude you STILL have to report it!</p>


    not only because it's unethical to not do so, but because it's you no longer have plausible deniability, therefore it's illegal to withhold that information.</p>[/quote]

    Well thats actually factually not true. If this was done in a business setting and this was an official report at work (which I think it was) then Joe Pa followed protocal at the time. Joe Pa went wrong by letting it slip through the cracks.

    But at the time, its not Joe Pa's place to report it to the cops officially. Thats why he will be cleared. He did he what he was suppose to do. But again as a human being, he did wrong

    But either way, it goes back to the guy WHO SAW THE RAPE HAPPEN! HE went to his superior? Hes the guy that should of been on his cell calling 911
    [/quote]if the wr coach DID go to a superior, he really didnt do anything wrong imo. could he have done more? yea but you cant fault him for it. this isnt a normal situation.
    [/quote]
    You can't fault him for not doing more!?!? This is getting unreal you guys. Exacty! It isn't a normal situation, which is exactly why everyone should have gone to the police.
    [/quote]listen, its easy to sit here and say what we all would have done but we dont know the individuals. if im a wr coach, i hear/see this atrocious act, what do i do? do i go over my coach and straight to the police which could get me fired? do i go over my coach and go to the dean who may think im nuts with no proof which could also get me fired? or do i go to coach whos been here forever and let him go to the dean.

    im sorry but i most likely would have done the same thing.
    [/quote]

    no offense, <u>i think if u see that and the first thought in your mind is your job then your a scumbag.</u> Thats the one truth I think I could say 100% definitly. If I saw it with my own two eyes, I would go over there and try to stop it and then report it, zero doubt in my mind
    [/quote] its easy to say without a kid and family to support.
    [/quote]

    no its easy to say whenever

    money isn't everything dezz. We're not talking about stealing a pack of twizzlers from 7-11 we're talking about a 12 year old kid having some 60 year old guy stick a **** in his *** against his will

    That will never be a decision in my life on whats more important
    [/quote]like i said we dont know any of these individuals. and youre not a scumbag if you dont want to get involved in a certain situation and its not like wr coach kept it to himself. he went and told the head coach, who lets be honest, has more pull in the school. maybe the wr coach felt he could handle it better or know what to do. wr coach is innocent.
    [/quote]

    <u>yea i dont want to get involved in a car accident, but if some ****** TBones me at a cross section on my way home from work, i'm involved</u>

    Theres nothing this guy could do, hes involved against his will. Sometimes **** drops on your lap. I would judge anybody who didn't feel the need to stop a rape or do something to make sure that the scumbag got his.

    On the level of the guy who saw it happen - who the g**** cares if he went to the head coach. Joe Paterno is the god of Penn State, not God. This may of happened AT Penn State with a Penn STate employee, but this isn't a Penn State matter.

    IT became one when this guy decided to tell Joe Pa instead of the police, Joe Pa handled accordingly at first. Either way, this guy saw it happen and its incredible to me that you could say that he wa slooking out for his job and that makes it okay
    [/quote]totally irrelevant. totally. the wr coach would be a witness on the street. if this is a car accident the kids the one that got tboned.

    and how is that joe pa handled this "accordingly at first" but the wr coach didnt? the wr coach did the same thing as joe pa!!! he went to his supervisor!!
    [/quote]

    its not irrelevant at all. Once you witness a crime like that, you are involved. Thats the bottom line.


    <u>Because who the **** goes to their supervisor aft4er seeing a kid raped? </u>Joe Pa was a middle man who had allegations dropped on his lap.

    The Coach was a wtiness in a crime.
    [/quote]IT IS totally irrelevant because a car accident isnt a crime. AND if he did witness the car accident he CAN leave if he likes, he doesnt have to stay around.

    I would after i round housed the perp to the face, and if joe didnt take action, then i would. we dont know what the wr coach was thinking or doing. for all we know he did intervene when he saw it happening,.
    [/quote]

    The car accidenbt example wasn't an example of a crime to a crime - it was an example of being involved with something that you don't want to be involved with. If your hit by another car, your involved with a car accident. If you see a child get raped with your own two eyes in front of your face, your involved.

    And thats my main point - possibly the biggest villian in this case is the guy that saw it and didn't try ot stop it and didn't go to the police. For the position he was in, going to your supervisor doesn't cut it.

    But if your Joe P, you didn't witness anything. You have a story dropped on your lap, you don't know if its true or not so you follow protocal and you make sure its seen through. He didn't make sure it was seen through and thats what makes him guilty. I can't kill him for not goin to the police right away.
    Fear the name, appreciate the game

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