THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[bigblue4417]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"]Penn St. head football coach Joe Paterno
just announced that he will retire at the end of the current football
season ... calling the child molestation scandal, "one of the great
sorrows of my life" and saying, "I wish I had done more."

Paterno
released a statement saying, "I am absolutely devastated by the
developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families,
and I pray for their comfort and relief."

He added, "I have
decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season.
At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute
discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I
want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

"My
goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish
the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the
rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University."

Officials say Paterno had knowledge that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had allegedly sexually abused a pre-teen boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room back in 2002.



Paterno reported the incident to the athletic director at Penn State -- but failed to notify the police.

The
police commissioner says Paterno has not been accused of legal
wrongdoing, but claims Paterno did NOT fulfill his "moral
responsibility."[/quote]

i know u think this helps ur point and hurts ours, but thats also because like i've said 12 times u haven't grasped what we are saying.


[/quote]
You don't grasp what I am saying Matt. I do understand what you are saying and have said that.

[DavenIII]

[quote user="bigblue4417"]Then lets say the guy goes to Joe Pa because he could use his name and then back up the person who saw it happen. They go to the cops together or with the AD and press charges on the guy and get an investigation going to stop all the abuse. [/quote]

Me and Matt BOTH think that is what he should have done already (well beyond putting the guys head thru the urinal himself on the spot) the point is whether Joe PA comes with him to the cops or not...he still has a moral responsibility to go there himself...**** his reputation and his job...he saw a young boy get raped he needs to make a report...whether or not he goes to Joe Pa is irrelevant morally.

Could going to Joe Pa. help the case...sure..and he should do so, but that's thinking to far into it, first comes first...you HAVE to take it to the end you have to make sure you do everything you can as a witness to get this guy convicted.....**** your job and your rep that doesn't matter.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]and lando i thin kur bat **** crazy for not taking issue from the source of all of this (besides sandusky obviously) and thats the WR coach WHO SAW THIS HAPPEN and didn't go to stop it and who thought it would be a better idea to go to somebody that could actually do NOTHING as oppose to going to the police.
[/quote]
He probably thought Joe would do something and use his name to back him up. I can't speak for the guy. If he would have not said anything to anyone and kept it to himself that is sick and wrong as well. The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes. I don't fault that kid for not contacting the police anymore than I do Joe. Whether you saw it or heard about it the cops need to know. I do take issue with the kid for not calling the cops. But he probably thought no one would believe him and it would be a great big coverup. That is why I think he went to Joe and he thought he could be trusted to use his "power" and get the right thing done.
[/quote]

okay thats fine - to back his name up...

doesn't he have to come out and tell somebody besides JP then for that theory to be right?

Wow you really need to wrap your head around the truths of this. You shouldn't take issue with the victim for not calling the cops because they are too young to really understand and process what happened. MOST rape victims actually don't even notify anybody of their rape, especially children.

Why do u not take issue with the witness who did nothing to stop it? I've yet to hear u speak on that.

WHat ****in power do u need to say u saw somebody rape someone? IU mean was Joe Pa going to hav eSandusky beat up? Was he going tpo have him thrown in jail with no judge or jury? I mean whats the POWER of JP that was going to fix this? You hguys are just going for the biggest name in this thing and having generic arguments


[/quote]
I do take issue with that Matt. I already said that. Let's say he calls the cops. They come and Sandusky says the kid has mental issues and can't be trusted. Ruins the guys rep and fires him. Then he just keeps on doing what he does and abusing these kids and that guy is gone.

Then lets say the guy goes to Joe Pa because he could use his name and then back up the person who saw it happen. They go to the cops together or with the AD and press charges on the guy and get an investigation going to stop all the abuse.

Or everyone could just turn there back and do nothing. I am glad the whole thing is crashing. I don't think Joe Pa should even coach another game. He is a ****ing embarrassment. Everyone should already be fired. It's not like he is innocent until proven guilty. There are 8 kids with more coming forward.
[/quote]

First off, Joe Pa hasn't been coaching for almost 10 years now. Hes been the Mascot of Penn State

Secondly you whole scenerio makes ZERO sense and you haven't addressed the fact that this guy did nothing to stop the rape.

So now lets see what would of happened in the moment had this guy gone and stopped the rape and then called the police. So now you have somebody who physically had to stop it and saw it go down, you have the victim, and the victim would still have evidence for a rape kit.

So now all of a sudden with all of that on there, Joe Pa wouldn't oif backed this guy up? That makes no sense.

Regardless out of all your disgust and emotion you have yet to ONCE address this guy and going to stop the rape to continue any longer.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"]TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.
[/quote]
You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
[/quote]

your not being sensible with this at all though.

Joe Pa did what he is suppose to do as an employee of Penn State. He played it by the books. It wasn't that he was concerned enough it was that when something like that is reported to you its your job to report it to those above you.

It wans't his place to call the cops and its a very logical situation. Your arguing these points wtih all the knowldge you have right now, not what JP had at the time. Hence why your not being sensible, your being emotional.

And like I said thats why JP **** the bed.

[Morehead State]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"]TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.
[/quote]
You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
[/quote]</P>


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.</P>

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"]Penn St. head football coach Joe Paterno
just announced that he will retire at the end of the current football
season ... calling the child molestation scandal, "one of the great
sorrows of my life" and saying, "I wish I had done more."

Paterno
released a statement saying, "I am absolutely devastated by the
developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families,
and I pray for their comfort and relief."

He added, "I have
decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season.
At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute
discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I
want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can."

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

"My
goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish
the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the
rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University."

Officials say Paterno had knowledge that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had allegedly sexually abused a pre-teen boy in the showers in the Penn State locker room back in 2002.



Paterno reported the incident to the athletic director at Penn State -- but failed to notify the police.

The
police commissioner says Paterno has not been accused of legal
wrongdoing, but claims Paterno did NOT fulfill his "moral
responsibility."[/quote]

i know u think this helps ur point and hurts ours, but thats also because like i've said 12 times u haven't grasped what we are saying.


[/quote]
You don't grasp what I am saying Matt. I do understand what you are saying and have said that.
[/quote]

okay but you understand him saying he wish he did more completely plays into the fact that he probably felt like he did he due dilligence by informing the AD. He probably wish he did more once he saw it went no where.

I highly doubt he regrets not calling the police right away

[DavenIII]

[quote user="bigblue4417"]You know I'm a sensible person. [/quote]

well I thought so before today....


[quote user="bigblue4417"]Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. [/quote]

No lando...that tells me absolutely nothing, Joe Pa probably handled hundreds if not thousands of complaints just like this during his tenure, and likely handled most of them the same way....by passing them on to the AD...whether he believed it or not...because that's his job.

[quote user="bigblue4417"]He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.[/quote]

I refuse to make that leap....you can if you want, but I'm not just going to assume the worst in him...it may be the case...but there is not evidence of it.

[quote user="bigblue4417"]Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
[/quote]

This is where I have have a problem with Joe Pa....how could he not notice...I agree.

but that type of thing, him not noticing something he should have...that's NOTHING in comparison to the failures of the guy who literally witness the rape and did almost nothing about it.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="Morehead State"]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"]TBH honest Lando you are scaring me a little, what if I told you some story in jest one day...one you just go run to the cops with it?

What if one of my Ex-Gf's had a vendetta against me and told you a completely untrue story about me...would you go running to the cops?

you seem a little bit insane here....you just believe everything everyone says to you immediately and are willing to ruin lives over it just because "it's the right thing to do" it's not that simple.

If you believe it...YES do it go to the cops, but remember it's just a story you are hearing.

if you SEE it...it's TOTALLY different...if you don't then follow through by reporting it then you are just a terrible person.
[/quote]
You are going a little overboard here Daven.

You know I'm a sensible person. Joe Pa took it sincere enough to pass it on to the AD. That tells you everything you need to know. He was concerned enough to pass it on, just not do what needed to be done because he knew it would ruin the program.

THEN - Still lets the guy have access to everything in the University and not question him or wonder what he is doing when he takes the kids down there. Think to himself that he is doing it again and he is still turning his back to it. Not only did anyone not say anything, they let it continue.
[/quote]</p>


I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.</p>[/quote]

nobody had a bigger obligation tha nthe witness who:

A) Could of prevented the rape from continuing

and

B) calling the police to say what he witnessed. JP didn't witness it.

[bigblue4417]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]The fact that he told someone, anyone makes the person who heard it just as guilty as him for not contacting the cops in my eyes.[/quote]

Well then you need Glasses, because Legally and Morally you are just wrong in my opinion by saying that.

Hearing a story about something....versus actually witnessing it are completely and separate things.

I've heard tons of stories not all of them were true and unless I truly believe them I'm not gonna act upon them....but I act upon **** I SEE go down with my own eyes.

[/quote]
Legally yes. Morally no.

Hearing it and seeing it are 2 different things. But right and wrong isn't.
[/quote]

morally just as wrong because you don't know the truth because theres no evidence and its somenbodys word vs somebody elses word

now that we know its true for the most part you can say that. At the time you couldn't and so thats why your wrong. Your hindsight is perfect
[/quote]

The worst part about what Lando is saying, and what scares me a little....is he's willing to take ANYONE word on anything, and is willing to literally ruin a good friends life...without even talking to him about it first...it's not even like he's taking the word of some random person over his good friends word...which would be bad enough...what Lando seems to be saying is that he won't even listen to his friend in the first place.

Some random person tells Lando that you did something horrible Matt, he's not even going to ask you if you did, he's just going to go straight to the cops and bang your life is over (even if your proven innocent your life is over)
[/quote]
You are only as good as your word. I would talk to someone first before accusing them and ruining there life. I would not just run with a random persons accusations but I would get to the bottom of it. If one of my good friends that I trust told me something that someone was doing to kids or their wife and I could tell with conviction they were in danger you bet your *** I'm going to do something. It's my moral obligation to my friends, family and community.

Similar to domestic violence. If I told you Matt was beating Amanda would you believe me or would you turn your eye to it and figure I didn't know what I was talking about. Would you ask Matt? If you did nothing and saw her with a bruise on her eye would you do something then? Would you feel bad you never said anything or would you think she just fell?

Or if you met someone at a bar that knew Amanda and said they thought Matt was beating her what would you do then? Same thing or different? It depends on how much I trust the source.

It was his WR's coach that saw it. Pretty trustworthy source and he was reportedly distraught when he told Joe.

[DavenIII]

[quote user="Morehead State"]I completely agree. Joe Pa had a larger obligation. And I don't care if he's a mascot or not.[/quote]

Ridiculous.

the person who heard a story from some random janitor has a larger moral obligation to seek justice then the janitor who witnesses the act himself?

you are either Trolling or you've become temporarily insane.