THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[bigblue4417]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]
Well Matt and Daven do.

I guess they think as long as you tell someone you're off the hook.
[/quote]

To me Lando...Morehead...this is what YOU GUYS are saying, and that's why I'm disappointed in you.
[/quote]
And you think we don't get your argument? lol

We could not be saying anything farther from that.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="lttaylor56"]<font color="#0000ff" size="4">Helpless kids getting raped was not as high of a priority as his team winning. </font>
[/quote]
For someone of Joe Pa's beliefs and standards is unreal.

He is held to a higher accountability than anyone Matt. He knew it happened and did nothing, then let it continue to happen to 6 more boys that we know of while still supporting his charity and befriending the man on almost a daily basis.

[/quote]

thats bull****

no human is held more accountable than another when it comes to somebody viewing a rape oppose to somebody hearing about a rape.

So your saying I should hold Tom Coughlin more accountable than you? Well I don't thats horse****

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="lttaylor56"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"]


[quote user="lttaylor56"]So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font>[/quote]</p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>


[/quote]

u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


[/quote]I know nothing he says or does will take away the pain and harm that came to those kids, but my opinion is that he acted accordingly by notifying his superior of the incident that he was made aware of by another party. Where he failed was by not following up on the progress of the case with his superiors or the authorities.
[/quote]</p>


And continuing to work with him until 2009. A guy he was told by two sources was molesting children. You don't see a problem with that?</p>[/quote]
This ****ing devil Sandusky was in the building LAST WEEK! They all knew what he did and did nothing to help future kids. They saw him with more kids and did nothing. Everyone turned their back to it.
[/quote]

im gonna tell you right now becuase its apparent that you and moorehead have no clue what we are actually saying - just by that response

please ask questions instead of making statements to us, because this is beyond ridiculous now. Im going to chalk it up that this situation has you so emotional that it is holding u back from reading and grasping what is actually said.

All we argued was that right away, Joe Pa no calling the police was actually a reasonable response. What he did after that letting it die and turning a blind eye is why he should be fired and berated for it. But the fact that you guys are even fixated on it because of his name is actually ****in gross to read. Your feeding into media bull**** just because hes the biggest name. How you can kill Paterno for JUST telling his superior, but then give McQueary a pass for JUST telling his superior when he could of physically stopped it from happening just shows how illogical your thinking is. Your honestly a media drone iwth that.

Your outrage is that a kid was raped, but ur taking more issue with the politics of it than the fact that the EYE WITNESS did NOTHING to stop it and didn't alert THE REAL AUTHORITIES?!

I don't care HOWWWW much Joe Pa is regarded around Penn st, hes not the ****ing law.
[/quote]
Who said I gave McQueary a pass? I don't, he is just as bad as Joe Pa. <u>After the kid saw what he did he went to his office and called his dad. His dad told him to go home. His dad and him decided it would be best to contact Paterno. He told Paterno he saw Sandusky fondling a boy in the showers and doing inappropriate things to him. </u>A week and a 1/2 later the coach met with the AD and the Finance Director and told them what he saw in the shower. Then a few weeks later they told him that Sandusky had his keys taken and would not be allowed to use the facilities anymore and that it was reported to his charity. No cops ever talked to him and nothing ever happened. Then they just let it keep happening for 8 more years. Schulz and the AD also lied to a grand jury. He said the allegations were not that serious and he had no indication a crime had occurred.

This was the 2nd time in 4 years that everyone heard about this coach molesting boys and no one did anything. They let him keep coming around and that is even more sick. They said banning Sandusky from bringing children on campus was unforceable. They all broke the law by not reporting it. Even Joe himself.
[/quote]this is why i dont point a finger at mcqueary. it obviously bothered him a great deal, he just didnt know how to handle the situation. it not like people walk in on a situation like this everyday.
[/quote]

LOL u give McQueary a pass from walking away from a kid getting raped

great stuff
[/quote]youre making accusations again. we DONT KNOW what he did when he witnessed or heard it. all we know is he told joe.
[/quote]

there was actually zero repots that he stopped it and that he walked away. I have read that a couple of times so until that changes, we're going to go wtih that. Multiple people are also making this arguement within the media. So if we're going by what the media says then this is in play

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="lttaylor56"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"]


[quote user="lttaylor56"]So Paterno is no more. I think he would of coached until he dropped, wild horses were not going to pull him out of there. <font color="#0000ff">It's a shame, they should of allowed him a press conference, resign and step down that way.
</font>[/quote]</p>


You can't be serious?</p>


They could not have fired him quick enough. </p>


[/quote]

u do realize he wasn't the one who actually raped the kid and he wasn't the one the witnessed the rape, chose not to stop it, and never went to the police --- right?


[/quote]I know nothing he says or does will take away the pain and harm that came to those kids, but my opinion is that he acted accordingly by notifying his superior of the incident that he was made aware of by another party. Where he failed was by not following up on the progress of the case with his superiors or the authorities.
[/quote]</p>


And continuing to work with him until 2009. A guy he was told by two sources was molesting children. You don't see a problem with that?</p>[/quote]
This ****ing devil Sandusky was in the building LAST WEEK! They all knew what he did and did nothing to help future kids. They saw him with more kids and did nothing. Everyone turned their back to it.
[/quote]

im gonna tell you right now becuase its apparent that you and moorehead have no clue what we are actually saying - just by that response

please ask questions instead of making statements to us, because this is beyond ridiculous now. Im going to chalk it up that this situation has you so emotional that it is holding u back from reading and grasping what is actually said.

All we argued was that right away, Joe Pa no calling the police was actually a reasonable response. What he did after that letting it die and turning a blind eye is why he should be fired and berated for it. But the fact that you guys are even fixated on it because of his name is actually ****in gross to read. Your feeding into media bull**** just because hes the biggest name. How you can kill Paterno for JUST telling his superior, but then give McQueary a pass for JUST telling his superior when he could of physically stopped it from happening just shows how illogical your thinking is. Your honestly a media drone iwth that.

Your outrage is that a kid was raped, but ur taking more issue with the politics of it than the fact that the EYE WITNESS did NOTHING to stop it and didn't alert THE REAL AUTHORITIES?!

I don't care HOWWWW much Joe Pa is regarded around Penn st, hes not the ****ing law.
[/quote]
Who said I gave McQueary a pass? I don't, he is just as bad as Joe Pa. <u>After the kid saw what he did he went to his office and called his dad. His dad told him to go home. His dad and him decided it would be best to contact Paterno. He told Paterno he saw Sandusky fondling a boy in the showers and doing inappropriate things to him. </u>A week and a 1/2 later the coach met with the AD and the Finance Director and told them what he saw in the shower. Then a few weeks later they told him that Sandusky had his keys taken and would not be allowed to use the facilities anymore and that it was reported to his charity. No cops ever talked to him and nothing ever happened. Then they just let it keep happening for 8 more years. Schulz and the AD also lied to a grand jury. He said the allegations were not that serious and he had no indication a crime had occurred.

This was the 2nd time in 4 years that everyone heard about this coach molesting boys and no one did anything. They let him keep coming around and that is even more sick. They said banning Sandusky from bringing children on campus was unforceable. They all broke the law by not reporting it. Even Joe himself.
[/quote]this is why i dont point a finger at mcqueary. it obviously bothered him a great deal, he just didnt know how to handle the situation. it not like people walk in on a situation like this everyday.
[/quote]
Not according to Matt and Daven. It's just policies and procedures.
[/quote]

yea not according to us. We are human enough to know that the way to handle it was to break it up and alert the authorities

crazy us

[Morehead State]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]Why would any reasonable person believe that we would think their behavior was OK?[/quote]

Because you are defending the people who should have stopped it right then and there...you are shifting blame to Joe Pa...who I've already admitted a million times yes should have done more, but obviously the real ****bags here are the ones who could have stopped it right then and there and choose not to, why are you defending them?



[quote user="Morehead State"]We have just argued that Joe Pa could have and should have done everything he could to prevent a child molester from abusing more children.[/quote]</P>


No doubt, and he did handle it correctly at first by reporting it to the AD...considering all he had was hearsay, after nothing came of it, yes he should have went further.
</P>



</P>


[quote user="Morehead State"] I have no support in any way for witnesses to a horrific crime like this not doing everything to stop it. [/quote]</P>


Could have fooled me the way you are defending the witnesses every god damn chance you get.
</P>



</P>


[quote user="Morehead State"] But we are talking about what Joe Paterno did or didn't do. [/quote]</P>


No that's not what we are talking about, what we are talking about is how the witnesses should have done everything in their power to stop this...it should have been handled before the child left the building with Sandusky that day/night.
</P>



</P>



[/quote]</P>


Daven, this debate is about what the responsibilities of Joe Paterno were in this situation.</P>


It seems that you and Matt think that simply reporting to the AD was enough, at least at first. I say at first there were a number of other things he should have done and didn't.I numbered them 1 thru 4.</P>


I'm not arguing about what the janitor or the assistant should have done. they are nothing to me. I've been watching Joe Pa for well over 40 years. Its his cupability that I am interested in and its his culpability that this debate is about.</P>


If you want ot hang the dementiated janitor and the pathetic assistant from the highest tree,..go ahead.</P>


But its not what this debate is about.</P>

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]
Exactly! I challenge all of you to read the indictment. Especially YOU Matt and Daven.[/quote]

There is nothing that I can read that will make me believe hearing about a crime second hand gives you a greater responsibility to report it then watching it happen first hand.

the simple fact that you are trying to convince me of that is disappointing.
[/quote]
They both have the same responsibility to protect, honor and mentor kids. They all failed. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. They both had the same legal responsibility to report it.

You make it sound like the guy just said, Hey Coach, I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy. The ****ing guy was distraught and shaking when he told Joe. It was not just an allegation, it was fact and Joe knew it. He admits himself he didn't do enough.

[/quote]

so are u suggesting that every time somebody has cried rape or that they've seen something that theres never been a liar?

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]Why would any reasonable person believe that we would think their behavior was OK?[/quote]

Because you are defending the people who should have stopped it right then and there...you are shifting blame to Joe Pa...who I've already admitted a million times yes should have done more, but obviously the real ****bags here are the ones who could have stopped it right then and there and choose not to, why are you defending them?



[quote user="Morehead State"]We have just argued that Joe Pa could have and should have done everything he could to prevent a child molester from abusing more children.[/quote]</p>


No doubt, and he did handle it correctly at first by reporting it to the AD...considering all he had was hearsay, after nothing came of it, yes he should have went further.
</p>



</p>


[quote user="Morehead State"] I have no support in any way for witnesses to a horrific crime like this not doing everything to stop it. [/quote]</p>


Could have fooled me the way you are defending the witnesses every god damn chance you get.
</p>



</p>


[quote user="Morehead State"] But we are talking about what Joe Paterno did or didn't do. [/quote]</p>


No that's not what we are talking about, what we are talking about is how the witnesses should have done everything in their power to stop this...it should have been handled before the child left the building with Sandusky that day/night.
</p>



</p>



[/quote]</p>


Daven, this debate is about what the responsibilities of Joe Paterno were in this situation.</p>


It seems that you and Matt think that simply reporting to the AD was enough, at least at first. I say at first there were a number of other things he should have done and didn't.I numbered them 1 thru 4.</p>


I'm not arguing about what the janitor or the assistant should have done. they are nothing to me. I've been watching Joe Pa for well over 40 years. Its his cupability that I am interested in and its his culpability that this debate is about.</p>


If you want ot hang the dementiated janitor and the pathetic assistant from the highest tree,..go ahead.</p>


But its not what this debate is about.</p>[/quote]

again your wrong. I started this debate about how even though JP ended up ****ting the bed that how everybody could be enamored on the big name of this and not be looking to kill MCQueary is baffling.

The side argument came about initially if he should of called the cops or not - but thats not what this was about.

I actually agree with your list but honestly half that stuff actually was their solution. The only thing they didn't do was report it to the police.

Just curious why are u not killing the charity on this as well? Penn State said the notified the charity of these charges and they still let him take the kids?

Well then you joined this conversation late and missed what it was actually about

[Morehead State]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]
Exactly! I challenge all of you to read the indictment. Especially YOU Matt and Daven.[/quote]

There is nothing that I can read that will make me believe hearing about a crime second hand gives you a greater responsibility to report it then watching it happen first hand.

the simple fact that you are trying to convince me of that is disappointing.
[/quote]
They both have the same responsibility to protect, honor and mentor kids. They all failed. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. They both had the same legal responsibility to report it.

You make it sound like the guy just said, Hey Coach, I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy. The ****ing guy was distraught and shaking when he told Joe. It was not just an allegation, it was fact and Joe knew it. He admits himself he didn't do enough.

[/quote]

so are u suggesting that every time somebody has cried rape or that they've seen something that theres never been a liar?


[/quote]</P>


An assistent coach comes up to you shaking and visibly upset and said he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the shower. The chances of that being a situation of "crying wolf" are very low. But thats why he should have forced the guy to talk to the police. Thats what investigations are for. And Paterno had heard these allegations before so you and I both know that he knew it was true.</P>


He chose to cover his *** with the AD and then continue to allow Sandusky on the campus and continued his friendship with him.</P>


Understand my point here Matt, you said that Paterno "played it right at first". Am I misquoting you?</P>


I have spent page after page from yesterday until now arguing with that very specific point. that is the line that got me going yesterday and still does today.</P>


I say he did the wrong thig at first. And i said what I think he should have done. I don't think I'm misrepresenting your position...am I?</P>

[dezzzR]

<h6 class="uiStreamMessage" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:1}"><div class="actorDescription actorName" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:2}">In Reese We Trust</div> <span class="messageBody" data-ft="{&quot;type&quot;:3}">The kick return job now reportedly belongs to DJ Ware and DaRel Scott.</span></h6>


</p>


</p>

ewww
</p>

[bigblue4417]

[quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]Are you drunk? This is personally insulting. [/quote]

Yes it is Morehead, and that's why I'm trying to not look at this discussion anymore, because you and Lando seem to be perfectly fine with the Assistant and Janitor who left a kid there to be raped and never went to the cops....

I'm literally disgusted with the two of you.

[/quote]
Then you don't see what we are saying Daven. We are against exactly what you said. Everyone is at fault here. Just as much at fault. Any of the people involved should have gone to the cops the moment they saw it. Everyone just kept covering it up. Joe could have used his "power" and stopped it. Instead he did nothing just like everyone else. No one is in the position that Joe is when it comes to that University.

My stance is the exact opposite of what you are saying Daven. I don't understand how you got what I've been saying so twisted. I don't know why the kids dad didn't tell him to call the cops instead of saying come home and we'll talk about it.