THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[bigblue4417]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]
Exactly! I challenge all of you to read the indictment. Especially YOU Matt and Daven.[/quote]

There is nothing that I can read that will make me believe hearing about a crime second hand gives you a greater responsibility to report it then watching it happen first hand.

the simple fact that you are trying to convince me of that is disappointing.
[/quote]
They both have the same responsibility to protect, honor and mentor kids. They all failed. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. They both had the same legal responsibility to report it.

You make it sound like the guy just said, Hey Coach, I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy. The ****ing guy was distraught and shaking when he told Joe. It was not just an allegation, it was fact and Joe knew it. He admits himself he didn't do enough.

[/quote]

so are u suggesting that every time somebody has cried rape or that they've seen something that theres never been a liar?


[/quote]
Not at all, my fav player is Kobe. You remember that right? lol

You think the case might have been a little different if Phil Jackson said the girl came to him and said what Kobe did to her?

Imagine if someone in a gigantic position of power had stood up with her/him?

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"]<div class="report">


Ahmad Bradshaw (foot) was not participating in Giants practice Thursday.</p>
</div>
<div class="impact">
At this point, it's hard to see Bradshaw playing
against the 49ers Sunday. Original reports from the Giants beat writers
had Bradshaw out "at least several weeks." This Sunday marks just two
weeks since he aggravated his recurring foot issues. We can pencil in
Brandon Jacobs as a weak RB2 in a brutal matchup for now.
</div>[/quote]

told ya man, don't expect to see him fo r awhile I'll know for sure today. Im actually going to see "my guy"

[bigblue4417]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"]The only thing they didn't do was report it to the police. [/quote]
Oh, that's it? lol You make it sound so general.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]
Exactly! I challenge all of you to read the indictment. Especially YOU Matt and Daven.[/quote]

There is nothing that I can read that will make me believe hearing about a crime second hand gives you a greater responsibility to report it then watching it happen first hand.

the simple fact that you are trying to convince me of that is disappointing.
[/quote]
They both have the same responsibility to protect, honor and mentor kids. They all failed. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. They both had the same legal responsibility to report it.

You make it sound like the guy just said, Hey Coach, I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy. The ****ing guy was distraught and shaking when he told Joe. It was not just an allegation, it was fact and Joe knew it. He admits himself he didn't do enough.

[/quote]

so are u suggesting that every time somebody has cried rape or that they've seen something that theres never been a liar?


[/quote]
Not at all, my fav player is Kobe. You remember that right? lol

You think the case might have been a little different if Phil Jackson said the girl came to him and said what Kobe did to her?

Imagine if someone in a gigantic position of power had stood up with her/him?
[/quote]

lol what if he did and he was wrong? I mean hwat more did Phill bring to the table other then he said "THATS WHAT THE GIRL TOLD HIM". Either way there would of been an investigation on the matter. Phil's testimony that the girl did tell him that woulnd't of carried the case anywhere! What do u think it would have done?

Also theres a huge difference in a case of having a victim vs having a victim and an eye witness.

[JPizzack]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"]
<H6 class=uiStreamMessage data-ft='{"type":1}'>
<DIV class="actorDescription actorName" data-ft='{"type":2}'>In Reese We Trust</DIV><SPAN class=messageBody data-ft='{"type":3}'>The kick return job now reportedly belongs to DJ Ware and DaRel Scott.</SPAN></H6>



</P>



</P>


ewww
</P>


[/quote]

no love for darell ? I likey
[/quote]</P>


I think it's a good idea. Thomas is ok, but it doesnt hurt to see if someone else can produce.</P>

[Morehead State]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"]


[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]
Exactly! I challenge all of you to read the indictment. Especially YOU Matt and Daven.[/quote]

There is nothing that I can read that will make me believe hearing about a crime second hand gives you a greater responsibility to report it then watching it happen first hand.

the simple fact that you are trying to convince me of that is disappointing.
[/quote]
They both have the same responsibility to protect, honor and mentor kids. They all failed. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. They both had the same legal responsibility to report it.

You make it sound like the guy just said, Hey Coach, I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy. The ****ing guy was distraught and shaking when he told Joe. It was not just an allegation, it was fact and Joe knew it. He admits himself he didn't do enough.

[/quote]

so are u suggesting that every time somebody has cried rape or that they've seen something that theres never been a liar?


[/quote]</P>


An assistent coach comes up to you shaking and visibly upset and said he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the shower. The chances of that being a situation of "crying wolf" are very low. But thats why he should have forced the guy to talk to the police. Thats what investigations are for. And Paterno had heard these allegations before so you and I both know that he knew it was true.</P>


He chose to cover his *** with the AD and then continue to allow Sandusky on the campus and continued his friendship with him.</P>


Understand my point here Matt, you said that Paterno "played it right at first". Am I misquoting you?</P>


I have spent page after page from yesterday until now arguing with that very specific point. that is the line that got me going yesterday and still does today.</P>


I say he did the wrong thig at first. And i said what I think he should have done. I don't think I'm misrepresenting your position...am I?</P>


[/quote]

Moorehead, if somebody were to be twisted enough to lie about this do you think they'd go and report it wtih a smile on their face. The visibly shaken thing, means nothing. I like to say it as they are "POT COMMITTED" to play the part if they are going to have the converstaion.

He had heard these allegations before and nothing came of them. So in reality, if this coach were to put the hustle on the fact that allegations have popped up before hold no water.

Yes at first, like maybe the first 3 days of having that conversation with McQueary. Thats the at first.

Your not grasping what at first or initially means. I can tell that because you've gone to respond wtih "Well he turned his back on it for 7 years". That would absolutely pass the at first part that i am speaking of.

Regardless if we debate on that its fine but it has real no bearing on anything since we both agree at the end of the day PAterno should be ashamed and gets what he deserves.

NOW, where the REAL debate comes is that I would like to think there are two school of guilt and blame that are going on here. The first is Sandusky, the raper, the guy who physically did all of this and then the second group of JP and the AD who were basically enablers in the sense that they heard about it and did nothing to see if it was true or put Sanduskys hand to the fire ofit...

the REAL debate is where you have all these excuses for MCQueary where he CLEARLY did not do all he could do and the fact that he was the eye witness puts the responsibility on him ten folds more than anybody else. I don't care who JP is or what he meant to Penn State. That has no bearing on the fact that MCQeary was in the ****in room, saw it with his own two eyes, didn't stop it and felt it better to go to JP than the police.

As much **** as we are giving JP about covering up, how can u be putting this guy in that group with JP and the AD and not with Sandusky. They are all guitly and deserve punishment, but i'm sorry next in line for the harshes tpunishment should be McQueary after Sandusky
[/quote]</P>


OK Matt, Heres the way I get your argument.</P>


You say that Joe Pa is a scapegoat and the two witnesses are far more at fault than Joe Pa. You then said that he played it right at first.</P>


If your argument is that he is a scapegoat, I disagree. He had direct knowledge of this and didn't use his power to stop any further abuse.</P>


You say that the witnesses were more at fault. </P>


I essentially disagree in one very important way. They clearly should have stopped it right away and are responsible for THEIR inaction. But byPaterno's inaction, MANY more kids were abused. </P>


I understand that it seems in your view Paterno couldn't go to the bathroom by himself and therefore isn't responsible. I guess at least. I'm not really sure. You've made so many comments like "he was just a mascot" so I'm really not sure. Your view is that Joe Paterno has no power at all at PSU and therefore has no power with the PSU police.</P>


I think that is completely silly. No one at PSU would ever believe that. No one has ever had any more power at PSU than Paterno.</P>


While no one can know exactly what was in his mind (I guess you think its just moosh) it is reasonable to believe that he knew this guy was doing this (he heard it from more than one source) he did the bare minimum about it to cover his *** and then continued as if nothing had happened. All while more kids were being abused by this monster Sandusky. And did this to protect the program or his own standing. Again no one can know.</P>


At the least Joe Paterno was an enabler. And that falls far short of the expectations anyone ever had of him.</P>

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]The only thing they didn't do was report it to the police. [/quote]
Oh, that's it? lol You make it sound so general.
[/quote]

ur taking one line from probably a 5 paragraph response to something u said

no clue what i was saying or in what context - don't qoute me like that anymore

[Morehead State]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]The only thing they didn't do was report it to the police. [/quote]
Oh, that's it? lol You make it sound so general.
[/quote]

ur taking one line from probably a 5 paragraph response to something u said

no clue what i was saying or in what context - don't qoute me like that anymore


[/quote]</P>


The bottom line is that Joe Paterno DID NOT "play it right" at first, which was your argument.</P>


At least not in my view.</P>

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"]


[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]
Exactly! I challenge all of you to read the indictment. Especially YOU Matt and Daven.[/quote]

There is nothing that I can read that will make me believe hearing about a crime second hand gives you a greater responsibility to report it then watching it happen first hand.

the simple fact that you are trying to convince me of that is disappointing.
[/quote]
They both have the same responsibility to protect, honor and mentor kids. They all failed. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. They both had the same legal responsibility to report it.

You make it sound like the guy just said, Hey Coach, I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy. The ****ing guy was distraught and shaking when he told Joe. It was not just an allegation, it was fact and Joe knew it. He admits himself he didn't do enough.

[/quote]

so are u suggesting that every time somebody has cried rape or that they've seen something that theres never been a liar?


[/quote]</p>


An assistent coach comes up to you shaking and visibly upset and said he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the shower. The chances of that being a situation of "crying wolf" are very low. But thats why he should have forced the guy to talk to the police. Thats what investigations are for. And Paterno had heard these allegations before so you and I both know that he knew it was true.</p>


He chose to cover his *** with the AD and then continue to allow Sandusky on the campus and continued his friendship with him.</p>


Understand my point here Matt, you said that Paterno "played it right at first". Am I misquoting you?</p>


I have spent page after page from yesterday until now arguing with that very specific point. that is the line that got me going yesterday and still does today.</p>


I say he did the wrong thig at first. And i said what I think he should have done. I don't think I'm misrepresenting your position...am I?</p>


[/quote]

Moorehead, if somebody were to be twisted enough to lie about this do you think they'd go and report it wtih a smile on their face. The visibly shaken thing, means nothing. I like to say it as they are "POT COMMITTED" to play the part if they are going to have the converstaion.

He had heard these allegations before and nothing came of them. So in reality, if this coach were to put the hustle on the fact that allegations have popped up before hold no water.

Yes at first, like maybe the first 3 days of having that conversation with McQueary. Thats the at first.

Your not grasping what at first or initially means. I can tell that because you've gone to respond wtih "Well he turned his back on it for 7 years". That would absolutely pass the at first part that i am speaking of.

Regardless if we debate on that its fine but it has real no bearing on anything since we both agree at the end of the day PAterno should be ashamed and gets what he deserves.

NOW, where the REAL debate comes is that I would like to think there are two school of guilt and blame that are going on here. The first is Sandusky, the raper, the guy who physically did all of this and then the second group of JP and the AD who were basically enablers in the sense that they heard about it and did nothing to see if it was true or put Sanduskys hand to the fire ofit...

the REAL debate is where you have all these excuses for MCQueary where he CLEARLY did not do all he could do and the fact that he was the eye witness puts the responsibility on him ten folds more than anybody else. I don't care who JP is or what he meant to Penn State. That has no bearing on the fact that MCQeary was in the ****in room, saw it with his own two eyes, didn't stop it and felt it better to go to JP than the police.

As much **** as we are giving JP about covering up, how can u be putting this guy in that group with JP and the AD and not with Sandusky. They are all guitly and deserve punishment, but i'm sorry next in line for the harshes tpunishment should be McQueary after Sandusky
[/quote]</p>


OK Matt, Heres the way I get your argument.</p>


You say that Joe Pa is a scapegoat and the two witnesses are far more at fault than Joe Pa. You then said that he played it right at first.</p>


If your argument is that he is a scapegoat, I disagree. He had direct knowledge of this and didn't use his power to stop any further abuse.</p>


You say that the witnesses were more at fault. </p>


I essentially disagree in one very important way. They clearly should have stopped it right away and are responsible for THEIR inaction. But byPaterno's inaction, MANY more kids were abused. </p>


I understand that it seems in your view Paterno couldn't go to the bathroom by himself and therefore isn't responsible. I guess at least. I'm not really sure. You've made so many comments like "he was just a mascot" so I'm really not sure. Your view is that Joe Paterno has no power at all at PSU and therefore has no power with the PSU police.</p>


I think that is completely silly. No one at PSU would ever believe that. No one has ever had any more power at PSU than Paterno.</p>


While no one can know exactly what was in his mind (I guess you think its just moosh) it is reasonable to believe that he knew this guy was doing this (he heard it from more than one source) he did the bare minimum about it to cover his *** and then continued as if nothing had happened. All while more kids were being abused by this monster Sandusky. And did this to protect the program or his own standing. Again no one can know.</p>


At the least Joe Paterno was an enabler. And that falls far short of the expectations anyone ever had of him.</p>[/quote]

I think in a WAY hes being a media scape goat becausae I can't fathom how hes the bigger story and McQueary isn't. Thats the only way i consider him a scapegoat. The way we're talking about him being the big story and MCQueary isn't

I DO think he deserves to be fired and get punished in however way he deserves.

I agree Paterno enabled. Like I said initially not calling the cops, i agree with. PErsonally I think the AD should of been called in right away when McQueary came to JP they should of sat down and game planned how they are going to handle things. The fact it took a couple of days for McQueary to go see the AD is unacceptable, their solutions were unacceptable (even more so because they weren't inforced).

But bottom line, it should of NEVER even gone down like that, McQueary should of wrapped Sandusky upside the head and called the cops on teh spot.

No i just think JP's power over Penn State has no barring on the police. I don't think the police would tried to cover up a child rape just becase JP's DC was the raper. I think your opinion of JPs power is overexaggerated. I dont think the school has the power over the police in a rape case. I think for somebody who i've had political debates with about my conspiracies that it stuns me even more that u think he had that kind of pull.

[bigblue4417]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="Morehead State"]Are you drunk? This is personally insulting. [/quote]

Yes it is Morehead, and that's why I'm trying to not look at this discussion anymore, because you and Lando seem to be perfectly fine with the Assistant and Janitor who left a kid there to be raped and never went to the cops....

I'm literally disgusted with the two of you.

[/quote]
Then you don't see what we are saying Daven. We are against exactly what you said. Everyone is at fault here. <font size="6">Just as much at fault.</font> Any of the people involved should have gone to the cops the moment they saw it. Everyone just kept covering it up. Joe could have used his "power" and stopped it. Instead he did nothing just like everyone else. No one is in the position that Joe is when it comes to that University.

My stance is the exact opposite of what you are saying Daven. I don't understand how you got what I've been saying so twisted. I don't know why the kids dad didn't tell him to call the cops instead of saying come home and we'll talk about it.

[/quote]

thats where ur wrong

McQueary is more at fualt. He didn't stop the rape from occuring when he physically was able to and somebody who witnesses the act is very different than somebody who hears about the act.

Not that the perosn who hears of the act should be off the hook.

WHO THE **** CARE?! The coach wasnt' a ****in kid! The fact that he didn't have the balls to stop the rape and common sense to notify the authorities himself is more gross than the aD covering it up. Because McQueary is guitly of all the **** that JP and the AD are, except more.
[/quote]
He tried to do what he thought was right by going to the most important person in the school. We can't be in his head and I have no idea why he did what he did. I don't know why his dad didn't tell him to call the cops when he called him from the office. I agree he acted wrong and should have called the cops immediately. We all would have done that. I would have killed the mother ****er. They never would have got his story. The Janitor also reported it and nothing ever happened. Maybe McQueary thought if he contacted police the same thing would have happened again so he went to Joe. More details will come out and your story will continue to get weaker.