1. #122451
    Hall of Famer Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"]and if more facts and details emerge i will factor them into my opinion of the situation

    but as of what we know right now, McQueary should be the story
    [/quote]Nobody knows who McQueary is. And therefore nobody cares what he did, or didn't do. Everybody knows who Paterno is and therefore care very much what he did or didn't do. And he didn't do plenty.
    "Typical Morehead!"..................and he didn't even mean that as a compliment..

  2. #122452
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"]


    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="DavenIII"][quote user="bigblue4417"]
    Exactly! I challenge all of you to read the indictment. Especially YOU Matt and Daven.[/quote]

    There is nothing that I can read that will make me believe hearing about a crime second hand gives you a greater responsibility to report it then watching it happen first hand.

    the simple fact that you are trying to convince me of that is disappointing.
    [/quote]
    They both have the same responsibility to protect, honor and mentor kids. They all failed. I am not trying to convince you otherwise. They both had the same legal responsibility to report it.

    You make it sound like the guy just said, Hey Coach, I saw Jerry in the shower with a boy. The ****ing guy was distraught and shaking when he told Joe. It was not just an allegation, it was fact and Joe knew it. He admits himself he didn't do enough.

    [/quote]

    so are u suggesting that every time somebody has cried rape or that they've seen something that theres never been a liar?


    [/quote]</p>


    An assistent coach comes up to you shaking and visibly upset and said he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the shower. The chances of that being a situation of "crying wolf" are very low. But thats why he should have forced the guy to talk to the police. Thats what investigations are for. And Paterno had heard these allegations before so you and I both know that he knew it was true.</p>


    He chose to cover his *** with the AD and then continue to allow Sandusky on the campus and continued his friendship with him.</p>


    Understand my point here Matt, you said that Paterno "played it right at first". Am I misquoting you?</p>


    I have spent page after page from yesterday until now arguing with that very specific point. that is the line that got me going yesterday and still does today.</p>


    I say he did the wrong thig at first. And i said what I think he should have done. I don't think I'm misrepresenting your position...am I?</p>


    [/quote]

    Moorehead, if somebody were to be twisted enough to lie about this do you think they'd go and report it wtih a smile on their face. The visibly shaken thing, means nothing. I like to say it as they are "POT COMMITTED" to play the part if they are going to have the converstaion.

    He had heard these allegations before and nothing came of them. So in reality, if this coach were to put the hustle on the fact that allegations have popped up before hold no water.

    Yes at first, like maybe the first 3 days of having that conversation with McQueary. Thats the at first.

    Your not grasping what at first or initially means. I can tell that because you've gone to respond wtih "Well he turned his back on it for 7 years". That would absolutely pass the at first part that i am speaking of.

    Regardless if we debate on that its fine but it has real no bearing on anything since we both agree at the end of the day PAterno should be ashamed and gets what he deserves.

    NOW, where the REAL debate comes is that I would like to think there are two school of guilt and blame that are going on here. The first is Sandusky, the raper, the guy who physically did all of this and then the second group of JP and the AD who were basically enablers in the sense that they heard about it and did nothing to see if it was true or put Sanduskys hand to the fire ofit...

    the REAL debate is where you have all these excuses for MCQueary where he CLEARLY did not do all he could do and the fact that he was the eye witness puts the responsibility on him ten folds more than anybody else. I don't care who JP is or what he meant to Penn State. That has no bearing on the fact that MCQeary was in the ****in room, saw it with his own two eyes, didn't stop it and felt it better to go to JP than the police.

    As much **** as we are giving JP about covering up, how can u be putting this guy in that group with JP and the AD and not with Sandusky. They are all guitly and deserve punishment, but i'm sorry next in line for the harshes tpunishment should be McQueary after Sandusky
    [/quote]</p>


    OK Matt, Heres the way I get your argument.</p>


    You say that Joe Pa is a scapegoat and the two witnesses are far more at fault than Joe Pa. You then said that he played it right at first.</p>


    If your argument is that he is a scapegoat, I disagree. He had direct knowledge of this and didn't use his power to stop any further abuse.</p>


    You say that the witnesses were more at fault. </p>


    I essentially disagree in one very important way. They clearly should have stopped it right away and are responsible for THEIR inaction. But byPaterno's inaction, MANY more kids were abused. </p>


    I understand that it seems in your view Paterno couldn't go to the bathroom by himself and therefore isn't responsible. I guess at least. I'm not really sure. You've made so many comments like "he was just a mascot" so I'm really not sure. Your view is that Joe Paterno has no power at all at PSU and therefore has no power with the PSU police.</p>


    I think that is completely silly. No one at PSU would ever believe that. No one has ever had any more power at PSU than Paterno.</p>


    While no one can know exactly what was in his mind (I guess you think its just moosh) it is reasonable to believe that he knew this guy was doing this (he heard it from more than one source) he did the bare minimum about it to cover his *** and then continued as if nothing had happened. All while more kids were being abused by this monster Sandusky. And did this to protect the program or his own standing. Again no one can know.</p>


    At the least Joe Paterno was an enabler. And that falls far short of the expectations anyone ever had of him.</p>


    [/quote]

    I think in a WAY hes being a media scape goat becausae I can't fathom how hes the bigger story and McQueary isn't. Thats the only way i consider him a scapegoat. The way we're talking about him being the big story and MCQueary isn't

    I DO think he deserves to be fired and get punished in however way he deserves.

    I agree Paterno enabled. Like I said initially not calling the cops, i agree with. PErsonally I think the AD should of been called in right away when McQueary came to JP they should of sat down and game planned how they are going to handle things. The fact it took a couple of days for McQueary to go see the AD is unacceptable, their solutions were unacceptable (even more so because they weren't inforced).

    But bottom line, it should of NEVER even gone down like that, McQueary should of wrapped Sandusky upside the head and called the cops on teh spot.

    No i just think JP's power over Penn State has no barring on the police. I don't think the police would tried to cover up a child rape just becase JP's DC was the raper. I think your opinion of JPs power is overexaggerated. I dont think the school has the power over the police in a rape case. I think for somebody who i've had political debates with about my conspiracies that it stuns me even more that u think he had that kind of pull.
    [/quote]</p>


    If Joe Pa showed up at the PSU police and had the assistant in tow. This would have been stopped in 2002. Don't kid yourselves. A parent had already filed a complaint with them about Sandusky.</p>


    I'm sorry Matt, he ****ed up right from the start.</p>[/quote]

    im sorry i disagree. Again, I think it would be almost wreckless to run to the police station like that. And I have a feeling my initially and at first time line is much much shorter than u are giving it credit for.


  3. #122453

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="dezzzR"]their words would hold more weight when telling police. its just the way it is.
    [/quote]
    Why they don't get that is weeeeeeeeell beyond me...

  4. #122454

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"]and if more facts and details emerge i will factor them into my opinion of the situation

    but as of what we know right now, McQueary should be the story
    [/quote]Yes.

  5. #122455

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"]your a ****in fool

    [/quote]
    I don't see why you need to attack us personally.

    You have said the same thing to me, MH and now Dez.

  6. #122456
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="JPizzack"]

    [quote user="dezzzR"]no he shouldnt, he didnt commit a crime
    [/quote]</p>


    McQueary? not in the eyes of the law Dezzz.....
    <u>he witnessed a crime, and didn't report it. There are laws for that also. So yes, he did commit a crime.</u>

    Do you think "reporting it to my boss" is a good defense?! lol uhhhh no.</p>[/quote]no he did not!!

    if an officer askes you a question and you lie, THEN its withholding information.
    [/quote]
    You are wrong Dez. It is against Pennsylvania law to hear about child crimes and not report it. The only reason he and Joe are not being charged is because they alerted people higher up which is complete bull**** in my eyes. Everyone should ****en burn in this thing.
    [/quote]

    but we're not talking Pennsylvania law remember? We're talking PENN STATE law

    isn't that what the two of u have been arguing and thats where JP's power comes in? You can't really think that JP has power of Pennsylvania law
    [/quote]
    It's his word and the trust and standing it comes with. It means more than a regular person.

    If I tell you how to shoot a jumpshot you won't care, if Jordan tells you, you'll listen.

    If McQueary goes to the cops they might say ehhh we'll see. If Joe goes there, THEY ACT!
    [/quote]

    this ain't the movies...

    if somebody reports a rape, somebody reports a rape.

    Had mCqueary stopped it and called the cops at the moment, there would of been NO WAY there was any wiggle room. Its like your suggesting that any rape isn't taken serious unless a celebrity calls it in. Your stance on this is literally insane

    Are you really comparing jordan teaching me a jumpshot to a football caoch reporting a rape?

    That literally makes ZERO sense.


    [/quote]
    No, I'm comparing the source. The trust and the standing that comes with a person that high. The belief that other people have in him because of who he is.

    I never said a rape isn't taken seriously, what I'm sayin is had Joe Pa gone to the cops with McQueary instead of McQueary by himself they would have taken it more seriously. How can you disagree?
    [/quote]

    i understand what you are saying to a degree - but its just so over exaggerated in this case. You have a good citizen with a good job who doesn't have some sort of flaw in his backround bring this to the police there is no reason not to believe him or think tha tit wouldn't get followed up.

    I'll even accept that argument for the janitor who apparently had mental issue. But this was a young guy who is risking his job and future to go report it. To suggest that he wouldn't of been taken seriously enough to bring the cops to really investigate this is ****in insane and inaccurate

  7. #122457
    Hall of Famer MattMeyerBud's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    Lando if u see a rape occur after work and u report it, would u say it wouldm't be followed up on or taken serious?



  8. #122458
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="dezzzR"]their words would hold more weight when telling police. its just the way it is.
    [/quote]
    Why they don't get that is weeeeeeeeell beyond me...
    [/quote]

    We do get that Lando, the point is whether Joe Pa comes or not, as a witness you HAVE to report it....and it wasn't reported.

    what I don't understand is how you think First hand Knowledge and Second Hand Knowledge are the same thing...

    one is called first and the other is called second for a reason...

    the witness has a MUCH MUCH MUCH higher responsibility to make sure the guy gets what he deserves then the guy he tells the story to.

    Should Joe Pa have done more...YES! obviously but that's not what we are talking about....the real culprit here (outside of Sandusky obviously) is Calhoun and McQueary, how they could think telling Joe Pa. about it and then dropping it was enough is unfathomable.

  9. #122459
    Hall of Famer Morehead State's Avatar
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    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!



    [quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]your a ****in fool

    [/quote]
    I don't see why you need to attack us personally.

    You have said the same thing to me, MH and now Dez.
    [/quote]</P>


    Not to mention that Scrappy implied we both would be perfectly happy to let a guy molest a child. Its getting heated and all the insults are going in one direction. Towards lando and myself.</P>


    The Steve Smith convo in the other thread is much more enjoyable. </P>
    "Typical Morehead!"..................and he didn't even mean that as a compliment..

  10. #122460

    Re: THEE GAME IS vs THE BUFFALO BILLS ON OCT 16th!

    [quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="bigblue4417"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]The only thing they didn't do was report it to the police. [/quote]
    Oh, that's it? lol You make it sound so general.
    [/quote]

    ur taking one line from probably a 5 paragraph response to something u said

    no clue what i was saying or in what context - don't qoute me like that anymore


    [/quote]
    The side argument came about initially if he should of called the cops or not - but thats not what this was about.

    I
    actually agree with your list but honestly half that stuff actually was
    their solution. The only thing they didn't do was report it to the
    police.

    That is what you said....

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