THEE NYG SWAG THREAD

[ny06]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"]


[quote user="MattMeyerBud"]and I disagree that what we do to the players every week is any differnet than the treatment coughlin is getting now....

critiquing players by saying they should be benched, cut, traded, or let them walk is all the equivalent of firing a coach
[/quote]</P>


Let's blame Coughlin for the dropped passes, or the miss assingments, hell let's blame Coughlin for the defense for sleepwalking in the Saint game. </P>


Tom Coughlin's time is up, I have said that since 09. I think he is a great coach, but it's time the players have a new leader. </P>


But you make it out like the players are only doing what there coaches tell them to do. No blame should go to them. I disagree, these players have made countless mistakes, and you have to question do they even care at this point. </P>


</P>


[/quote]

no, lets blame him for bad gameplanning, lack of preperation by players, lack of disciplin by players (it was suppose to be the biggest thing about him), his lack of bringing along young players, his lack of willingness to use young talent,.

How you could get that from my argument is baffling. As somebody that is in thee thread every week and you literally see me shred players constantly , it makes no sense for u to say i don't put blame on the players.

A new coach can make a world of difference
[/quote]</P>


I never once discounted the bad coaching Coughlin and staff have produced over the last few years. I still think he is a good coach, you don't coach for this long not to be good. The game has passed him, we as fans know that. He is loyal to a fault with his assitants. We have no in-game adjustments, we have been outcoached on numerous occasions. </P>


My arguement is the players accept as much blame as Coughlin. Time and time again this team seems flat, say that is coaching, but when does the players say, we look like **** out here, let's play hard, give it all we got. That's not the case the past 3 seasons. </P>


You ask me I want this team blown up, time to rebuild, it will suck but it's time. We have alot of players who are just collecting a check. </P>


And what has happened to home field advantage? I prefer this team to play on the road. When they play at home in front of 80+ thousand fans, they play like beaten men. </P>


[/quote]

So then what are you arguing with me about, because your completely losing me. You've tried to say im not blaming the players at all and I've pointed out to you thats not the case numerous times now.

If your mistaking me saying we have the talent now and can win with these guys as me not putting blame on the players for their performance, well then your just mistaken. We don't need to BLOW the team up. Get rid of Osi and Jacobs, okay - but beyond that who do you think REALLY needs to go? McKenzie? I can go wtih that. I would like to see Beatty at RT next year and Diehl back at LT.

I mean we are losing people no matter who the coach is next year due to FA and cap issues. So before I even respond to your blowing the team up - be specific in your examples.

you don't even want to know our record at home...
[/quote]</P>


Your arguement is a new head coach will make a world of difference. </P>


My arguement is we need an overhaul on the players. </P>


A new head coach <U>can</U> make a difference, but it won't change the flat and uninspired play from the players. </P>


Hence the word can, will it, I highly doubt it. </P>

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"]


[quote user="MattMeyerBud"]it comes down to this dez: if 2007 never happened u would be calling for his head

The biggest thing about that playoff run was Eli playing good football, the running game being dominate, and the defensive mastermind of Spags shutting down the top 3 offenses in the league that year in crunch time.

Hes been embarressed in the playoffs twice and lost a close one....

The team can't beat anybody good for his whole tenure, he averages beating teams with winning records 1 out of every 3 tries.

You blame game planning and and concepts on the DCs, but Gilbrides his guy, he had a saw in Fewell, and he is suppose to oversee all of that.

Bottom line is that the HC oversees the whole thing and the whole thing has been underproducing. There needs to be a change
[/quote]</p>


If 2007 never happened Tom Coughlin would have been fired, so that conversation is moot. </p>


Tom Coughlin deserves much of the blame, but it's time that the players accept alot of blame as well. </p>


I am tired of seeing players half *** it out there, not knowing there assignments, just giving up on more then one occasion. </p>


I have said this for years now, this team is weak minded, you hit them in the mouth, and they break down. There is no fight in them. Everyone is out for themselves. </p>


A coaching change needs to be made, and some of the dead weight on this roster needs to go. </p>


[/quote]

thats the part of the argument i hate: when are the players going to get some of the blame?

Like, i don't get it - EVERY WEEK we are critiquing their play and **** they do. When have we NOT blamed the players?

Naturally players will be gone next year and naturally with a coaching change, other players will be gone as well
[/quote]</p>


Critiquing there play is what fans do, but your missing the point. This same old b.s of playing lazy and not giving it there all has been going on since 09. Can you say in all honesty thats not the players fault? A coaches job is to put there players in the best situation to win. The player has to execute and give it there all. There have been far too many times the players have just went through the motions. </p>


If you think a new coaching change will get these guys back to playing with fire your sadly mistaken. There is a thing going around in that locker-room, and it's time to cut it out. I want guys who want to play for the NY Giants, they give it there all every play, every game. </p>


What did Canty say after the Saint game? "we can't be ourselves up after this game" Are you kidding me? The players on defense should feel ashamed on there performance, they should look for blood. They should say this is not acceptable, we need to work hard and get back to Giant football. </p>


[/quote]

Okay and that doesn't SCREAM head coach to you? I think its the players to a degree, but we've past that point now. There have been far too many times we've been outcoached too. Preperation and getting your teams mind right is also something coaches have to do as a whole.

I disagree. Fires need to be lit under their *** and Coughlin cna't do it anymore. A BIG part of coaching is motivating your players - something TC can't do. I bet you would of made the same case about San Francisco last year and a new coach has completely turned over that place and got the most out of its players....

and not for nothing I disagree that Coughlin does a good job with putting his players in the best situations.

Theres obviously a lack of emotion in the locker room and lets be real, your probably reading WAYY too much into this. If i was a betting man i would doubt that Canty meant it in the way ur suggesting, but more in a we can't get down on ourselves type thing.


[/quote]</p>


I can throw out your San fran arguement with one word. Quitters...</p>


They have no quitters on that team, we do...</p>


</p>


[/quote]

LOL WHATTTT?!

You apparently didn't wathc them too much these past few years. Those teams ABSOLUTELY quit on Nolan and Singletary.

Its the SAME exact team that GOT singletary FIRED!!!!
[/quote]</p>


How do you know they quit on those 2 coaches?</p>


Are you getting that from the highlights on espn? </p>


Don't tell me you watch all there games during those head coaches tenure, you can't even watch the Yankees during the regular season. </p>


[/quote]

yea i got my info from the same website that u did that said they never quit. Glad you were on top of that. I actually inquire about other teams and try to get as much knowledge on football year round. Not going to turn this into a comparison, but what gives you more of a right to make a statement like that than i do? I'd guarantee that i follow the NFL in a more broad way than you do

i don't watch the yankees as much as u guys because baseball puts me to sleep. Big difference
[/quote]</p>


You're not going to turn this into a comparison arguement, but in the same sentence you say you follow the nfl in a broad way more then me? </p>


Please explain to me how the 49ers quit? I would love to hear this. </p>


</p>[/quote]

Explain to me how they showed heart as well and DIDNT quit.

That team didn't play for Singletary and it showed - hence why they are doing good right now

I mean if i throw stats at you wouldn't that just mean im being a stat ***** and play into the whole thing?

How bout the dramatically increased play of the team form coach to coach. How bout the players saying they are happy Singletary was fired?

I mean what kind of examples do you want.

And hey man you went there by trying to make some comment about me not watching the yankees - its because i don't care about baseball really. Its a snoozing sport. 3.5 hours of watching a guy throw a ball to another guy and occasional people will run.

And I would def say that I generally have a grasp on most teams in the nfl year round because all i do is read nfl based articles and listen to Sirus NFL radio most of my days at work.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="dezzzR"]i think we made all our points. but you sound like a tc hater matt. so does mh, and i dont think its warranted. he deserves respect and class, like hes shown his players and us fans for over 8 years
[/quote]

i gues that means ny06 must sound like a TC despiser since hes wanted him gone since 09

[dezzzR]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]<u>and the beauty of my San Fran debate is that its pretty much the same exact team as it was last year.</u> Harbough is the difference maker and I know if u admit that it would destroy your whole argument so u won't, but its the truth

and stop saying they havne't played anybody - its stupid at this point. Cowboys, Eagles, Bengals, and Baltimore


[/quote] bengals, cowboys and eagles are good??? id say decent at best. baltimore beat them.

the beauty? how about i start naming all the coaches who have failed with a brand new teams. lol its amusing how you think someones going to walk in here and were magically going to start winning. gilbrides been with eli his WHOLE carreer. if you dont think a new staff is going to set eli back a bit next season youre ****ing nuts.

[/quote]

lol one team is winning their division and the other is a 7 win team thats in the playoffs and just happen to play in the hardest division its football

apparently not only do u not watch the giants but u don't know naything else thats going on in the league either.

Baltimore is a top team in the AFC.

Okay once u give me that lits, you can leave the ones out that didn't inherit talent and got a ****ty team. I could name you PLENTY of teams that got new coaches that had talented teams and were successful
[/quote]so because the cowboys are winning the division, theyre good? who have the cowboys beat. give me break. i didnt say balt was decent, i said they beat your 9ers. twisting woords again.
[/quote]

okay dezz - so then do me a favor, list me who all the good teams are in the league to where u'd give props to somebody for winning, im dying to hear
[/quote]i think it would be much easier if you listed the good teams the cowboys have beat lol

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"]


[quote user="MattMeyerBud"]it comes down to this dez: if 2007 never happened u would be calling for his head

The biggest thing about that playoff run was Eli playing good football, the running game being dominate, and the defensive mastermind of Spags shutting down the top 3 offenses in the league that year in crunch time.

Hes been embarressed in the playoffs twice and lost a close one....

The team can't beat anybody good for his whole tenure, he averages beating teams with winning records 1 out of every 3 tries.

You blame game planning and and concepts on the DCs, but Gilbrides his guy, he had a saw in Fewell, and he is suppose to oversee all of that.

Bottom line is that the HC oversees the whole thing and the whole thing has been underproducing. There needs to be a change
[/quote]</p>


If 2007 never happened Tom Coughlin would have been fired, so that conversation is moot. </p>


Tom Coughlin deserves much of the blame, but it's time that the players accept alot of blame as well. </p>


I am tired of seeing players half *** it out there, not knowing there assignments, just giving up on more then one occasion. </p>


I have said this for years now, this team is weak minded, you hit them in the mouth, and they break down. There is no fight in them. Everyone is out for themselves. </p>


A coaching change needs to be made, and some of the dead weight on this roster needs to go. </p>


[/quote]

thats the part of the argument i hate: when are the players going to get some of the blame?

Like, i don't get it - EVERY WEEK we are critiquing their play and **** they do. When have we NOT blamed the players?

Naturally players will be gone next year and naturally with a coaching change, other players will be gone as well
[/quote]</p>


Critiquing there play is what fans do, but your missing the point. This same old b.s of playing lazy and not giving it there all has been going on since 09. Can you say in all honesty thats not the players fault? A coaches job is to put there players in the best situation to win. The player has to execute and give it there all. There have been far too many times the players have just went through the motions. </p>


If you think a new coaching change will get these guys back to playing with fire your sadly mistaken. There is a thing going around in that locker-room, and it's time to cut it out. I want guys who want to play for the NY Giants, they give it there all every play, every game. </p>


What did Canty say after the Saint game? "we can't be ourselves up after this game" Are you kidding me? The players on defense should feel ashamed on there performance, they should look for blood. They should say this is not acceptable, we need to work hard and get back to Giant football. </p>


[/quote]

Okay and that doesn't SCREAM head coach to you? I think its the players to a degree, but we've past that point now. There have been far too many times we've been outcoached too. Preperation and getting your teams mind right is also something coaches have to do as a whole.

I disagree. Fires need to be lit under their *** and Coughlin cna't do it anymore. A BIG part of coaching is motivating your players - something TC can't do. I bet you would of made the same case about San Francisco last year and a new coach has completely turned over that place and got the most out of its players....

and not for nothing I disagree that Coughlin does a good job with putting his players in the best situations.

Theres obviously a lack of emotion in the locker room and lets be real, your probably reading WAYY too much into this. If i was a betting man i would doubt that Canty meant it in the way ur suggesting, but more in a we can't get down on ourselves type thing.


[/quote]</p>


I can throw out your San fran arguement with one word. Quitters...</p>


They have no quitters on that team, we do...</p>


</p>


[/quote]

LOL WHATTTT?!

You apparently didn't wathc them too much these past few years. Those teams ABSOLUTELY quit on Nolan and Singletary.

Its the SAME exact team that GOT singletary FIRED!!!!
[/quote]</p>


How do you know they quit on those 2 coaches?</p>


Are you getting that from the highlights on espn? </p>


Don't tell me you watch all there games during those head coaches tenure, you can't even watch the Yankees during the regular season. </p>


[/quote]

yea i got my info from the same website that u did that said they never quit. Glad you were on top of that. I actually inquire about other teams and try to get as much knowledge on football year round. Not going to turn this into a comparison, but what gives you more of a right to make a statement like that than i do? I'd guarantee that i follow the NFL in a more broad way than you do

i don't watch the yankees as much as u guys because baseball puts me to sleep. Big difference
[/quote]</p>


You're not going to turn this into a comparison arguement, but in the same sentence you say you follow the nfl in a broad way more then me? </p>


Please explain to me how the 49ers quit? I would love to hear this. </p>


</p>[/quote]

Explain to me how they showed heart as well and DIDNT quit.

That team didn't play for Singletary and it showed - hence why they are doing good right now

I mean if i throw stats at you wouldn't that just mean im being a stat ***** and play into the whole thing?

How bout the dramatically increased play of the team form coach to coach. How bout the players saying they are happy Singletary was fired?

I mean what kind of examples do you want.

And hey man you went there by trying to make some comment about me not watching the yankees - its because i don't care about baseball really. Its a snoozing sport. 3.5 hours of watching a guy throw a ball to another guy and occasional people will run.

And I would def say that I generally have a grasp on most teams in the nfl year round because all i do is read nfl based articles and listen to Sirus NFL radio most of my days at work.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"]<u>and the beauty of my San Fran debate is that its pretty much the same exact team as it was last year.</u> Harbough is the difference maker and I know if u admit that it would destroy your whole argument so u won't, but its the truth

and stop saying they havne't played anybody - its stupid at this point. Cowboys, Eagles, Bengals, and Baltimore


[/quote] bengals, cowboys and eagles are good??? id say decent at best. baltimore beat them.

the beauty? how about i start naming all the coaches who have failed with a brand new teams. lol its amusing how you think someones going to walk in here and were magically going to start winning. gilbrides been with eli his WHOLE carreer. if you dont think a new staff is going to set eli back a bit next season youre ****ing nuts.

[/quote]

lol one team is winning their division and the other is a 7 win team thats in the playoffs and just happen to play in the hardest division its football

apparently not only do u not watch the giants but u don't know naything else thats going on in the league either.

Baltimore is a top team in the AFC.

Okay once u give me that lits, you can leave the ones out that didn't inherit talent and got a ****ty team. I could name you PLENTY of teams that got new coaches that had talented teams and were successful
[/quote]so because the cowboys are winning the division, theyre good? who have the cowboys beat. give me break. i didnt say balt was decent, i said they beat your 9ers. twisting woords again.
[/quote]

okay dezz - so then do me a favor, list me who all the good teams are in the league to where u'd give props to somebody for winning, im dying to hear
[/quote]i think it would be much easier if you listed the good teams the cowboys have beat lol
[/quote]

well by your own theory then that must mean TC REALLY sucks because hes 18-37 vs good teams as Giants HC... thanks for that

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"]


[quote user="MattMeyerBud"]and I disagree that what we do to the players every week is any differnet than the treatment coughlin is getting now....

critiquing players by saying they should be benched, cut, traded, or let them walk is all the equivalent of firing a coach
[/quote]</p>


Let's blame Coughlin for the dropped passes, or the miss assingments, hell let's blame Coughlin for the defense for sleepwalking in the Saint game. </p>


Tom Coughlin's time is up, I have said that since 09. I think he is a great coach, but it's time the players have a new leader. </p>


But you make it out like the players are only doing what there coaches tell them to do. No blame should go to them. I disagree, these players have made countless mistakes, and you have to question do they even care at this point. </p>


</p>


[/quote]

no, lets blame him for bad gameplanning, lack of preperation by players, lack of disciplin by players (it was suppose to be the biggest thing about him), his lack of bringing along young players, his lack of willingness to use young talent,.

How you could get that from my argument is baffling. As somebody that is in thee thread every week and you literally see me shred players constantly , it makes no sense for u to say i don't put blame on the players.

A new coach can make a world of difference
[/quote]</p>


I never once discounted the bad coaching Coughlin and staff have produced over the last few years. I still think he is a good coach, you don't coach for this long not to be good. The game has passed him, we as fans know that. He is loyal to a fault with his assitants. We have no in-game adjustments, we have been outcoached on numerous occasions. </p>


My arguement is the players accept as much blame as Coughlin. Time and time again this team seems flat, say that is coaching, but when does the players say, we look like **** out here, let's play hard, give it all we got. That's not the case the past 3 seasons. </p>


You ask me I want this team blown up, time to rebuild, it will suck but it's time. We have alot of players who are just collecting a check. </p>


And what has happened to home field advantage? I prefer this team to play on the road. When they play at home in front of 80+ thousand fans, they play like beaten men. </p>


[/quote]

So then what are you arguing with me about, because your completely losing me. You've tried to say im not blaming the players at all and I've pointed out to you thats not the case numerous times now.

If your mistaking me saying we have the talent now and can win with these guys as me not putting blame on the players for their performance, well then your just mistaken. We don't need to BLOW the team up. Get rid of Osi and Jacobs, okay - but beyond that who do you think REALLY needs to go? McKenzie? I can go wtih that. I would like to see Beatty at RT next year and Diehl back at LT.

I mean we are losing people no matter who the coach is next year due to FA and cap issues. So before I even respond to your blowing the team up - be specific in your examples.

you don't even want to know our record at home...
[/quote]</p>


Your arguement is a new head coach will make a world of difference. </p>


My arguement is we need an overhaul on the players. </p>


A new head coach <u>can</u> make a difference, but it won't change the flat and uninspired play from the players. </p>


Hence the word can, will it, I highly doubt it. </p>[/quote]

u said blow it up - so who do u want gone.

[dezzzR]

[quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"]i think we made all our points. but you sound like a tc hater matt. so does mh, and i dont think its warranted. he deserves respect and class, like hes shown his players and us fans for over 8 years
[/quote]

i gues that means ny06 must sound like a TC despiser since hes wanted him gone since 09
[/quote]if you cant see the difference in HOW ny is approaching the subject as opposed to you, i dont know what to tell ya buddy. wanting tc gone has nothing to do with it. iv even said "maybe his time IS up" today.

[JPizzack]

I said this yesterday, but I just want to mention it again....
I don't hate Tom Coughlin. Quite the opposite.
But he's reached the end of his career here. You can blame his style, or blame his methods, or maybe his overall control.
He lost this team so long ago, that we've just been trying to break even at this point.

You can obviously say that there are mistakes. Coughlin can't make an RB hold onto the ball. He can't haul in tipped passes. But what he can do is make the players not give a **** after the first 6 games have already been played.

I forget who said it the other day:
"a coach's job isnt to be a cheerleader! it isnt his job to motivate players"

ummm are you ****ing serious?! A bunch of rich entitled a-holes who think they are the best of the best? You bet your *** it's the coaches job to keep all those ****ers in check!!

The owners fluff these players, tell them theyre the best, and the coachesbring them backdown to earthand tell them they can do better!! That's how it ****ing works. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know jack**** about sports, period.

[MattMeyerBud]

[quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="ny06"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="ny06"]


[quote user="MattMeyerBud"]and I disagree that what we do to the players every week is any differnet than the treatment coughlin is getting now....

critiquing players by saying they should be benched, cut, traded, or let them walk is all the equivalent of firing a coach
[/quote]</p>


Let's blame Coughlin for the dropped passes, or the miss assingments, hell let's blame Coughlin for the defense for sleepwalking in the Saint game. </p>


Tom Coughlin's time is up, I have said that since 09. I think he is a great coach, but it's time the players have a new leader. </p>


But you make it out like the players are only doing what there coaches tell them to do. No blame should go to them. I disagree, these players have made countless mistakes, and you have to question do they even care at this point. </p>


</p>


[/quote]

no, lets blame him for bad gameplanning, lack of preperation by players, lack of disciplin by players (it was suppose to be the biggest thing about him), his lack of bringing along young players, his lack of willingness to use young talent,.

How you could get that from my argument is baffling. As somebody that is in thee thread every week and you literally see me shred players constantly , it makes no sense for u to say i don't put blame on the players.

A new coach can make a world of difference
[/quote]</p>


I never once discounted the bad coaching Coughlin and staff have produced over the last few years. I still think he is a good coach, you don't coach for this long not to be good. The game has passed him, we as fans know that. He is loyal to a fault with his assitants. We have no in-game adjustments, we have been outcoached on numerous occasions. </p>


My arguement is the players accept as much blame as Coughlin. Time and time again this team seems flat, say that is coaching, but when does the players say, we look like **** out here, let's play hard, give it all we got. That's not the case the past 3 seasons. </p>


You ask me I want this team blown up, time to rebuild, it will suck but it's time. We have alot of players who are just collecting a check. </p>


And what has happened to home field advantage? I prefer this team to play on the road. When they play at home in front of 80+ thousand fans, they play like beaten men. </p>[/quote]harry carson agrees with you ny
""the only thing i can say is im glad i played during an era where defense was at a premium and guys played with pride. not that we were great all the time, but we played with heart. and we didnt just talk about it, we tried to do something about it"
[/quote]

actually HArry Carson is actually agreeing with me more so.

You and NY seem to think that because im saying something about Coughlin this week having to go that it erases everything i've said about the players all season - which is ******ed

Harry Carson in his quote acknowledges that he played in a DIFFERENT ERA. **** ain't like it was back then anywhere. Its a different player in the NFL today, i would hope u don't argue that.

Hence why TC is also outdated and you bringing up what he did with the Jags in 1995 just has no merit in this argument