[quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="dezzzR"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="MattMeyerBud"][quote user="Morehead State"][quote user="JPizzack"][quote user="Morehead State"]
[quote user="DavenIII"]Also I just saw a claim recently.
it said the average cost per month for healthcare in Mass (which has done what Obama care is supposed to do just on a state level)
600$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 50 Days - Boston
it was compared to Atlanta which is a more "average" health care system.
200$ Month - Average wait for an appointment 11 Days - Atlanta
so why is the statewide healthcare plan in Mass considered a success if it's increasing cost and lowering quality of care...and if that's the case why did Obama base his plan off that one...and is that what we can all expect for everyone once it starts being implemented on a federal level?
I live in Mass Daven. I call my doctor at 9:00 and he can see me no later than 11:00. All the Mass. HC law does is insure the small minority that aren't insured now. It has absolutely NO EFFECT on the 95% of people who already have insurance.</p>
My insurance is great actually. We have a low deductable and no co pay. Its because we have good insurance through the market system.</p>
I have no idea where these numbers of yours come from. I live here.</p>
[/quote] I've never even heard of that. That number is simply for the Obamacare he's quoting, right? I love my insurance, and my company has done a kickass job of making sure we don't get cornholed on the premiums. little to no copays, free prescription drugs basically. My one gripe is with dental coverage, but i've never heard anyone say they like their dental insurance.[/quote]</p>
I have great dental insurance.</p>
further proof that your experience with healthcare isn't a good sample of the restof the country...
or were u just davening?
Now you get to be forced to buy HC insurance whether you can afford it or not. Didn't you say last year that you didn't have it because is was too expensive? Starting in 2014, you don't get to decide for yourself. You will be forced to buy insurance from private insurance companies thanks to Obamacare.</p>
My point is that the HC law in Mass. has no effect on the 95% of residents that already have insurance.</p>
yes but, not at 125 dollars a week. Lando was the one that can't afford the insurance. Two jobs ago when I was working for a window and door gallery 7 years ago, I think I was making like 13 an hour on a 40 hour week and it would of cost me 125 bucks a week for insurance.
This is for people caught in those situations and with the unemployment the way it is people who are out of work. So many countries do this and have success. Much like the way Daven started spilling stats of Mass, you had to correct him. Its the same thing that happens when people start talking about how health insurance is other countries that have national healthcare. THEY ALL LOVE IT.
Infact the canucks have poked in on these convos when we have had them multiple times to say they can't believe the amount of people that are against this idea in the states.
It seems like your in a good situation and i'm glad for you and you SHOULD vote against this because obviously it doesn't make sense for you personally - but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for ALOT of other people. I can't get into the debates with you because I don't know enough facts to argue it because I haven't really been following much lately. But i'll just stick to my general rule of thumb: oppose anything that pappy and daven say
EDIT: isn't obama care being modeled after a successful healthcare model (Mass situation) in which you have just said works for you, but yet ur still not for it??
My daughter ilves in the UK. She gets the choice of the UK HC system or private insurance provided by the US gov. She says the UK HC system is a nightmare. Essentially any non life threatening conditions usually take 4-6 months for an appt, Obviously, all the US gov. employees choose private insurance.</p>
You don't know how bad it is there Matt. This comes from someone who is there. Not bogus studies by posted by Daven. Her Brit friends all hate it.</p>
You don't understand how inefficient things get when huge bureaucracies run them. Its not idealogy. Its just the way it is. We need more competition in the system, not less.</p>
okay and canadians have come in here and we've heard it from the horses mouth that they LOVE it
You have to be kidding me.</p>
What about Danny Williams, the Premier of Newfoundland, coming to the US for heart surgery.</p>
Its meatball healthcare in Canada. And it builds complaisance. Thats the worst thing these kinds of things do. They build a dependence on government that takes away your spirit. Its all over Europe right now. Thats why we outproduce them and they come calling on us when they need military help.</p>
Americans are self reliant. And that attitude creates economic growth and prosperity. Nationalized healthcare and other huge government programs work against that. </p>
The European people have learned to depend on others. Thats why they are weak and needy. Thats why the fiscal crisis is spreading to Spain and Portugal. It will soon find its way to France and the UK.</p>
The "cradle to grave" entitilement society strips the ambition out of people. It will be discredited as time goes byespecially asgovernments go broke.</p>[/quote]
I just disagree with your general assessment that Americans are self reliant. You have some pretty scary views moorehead, not going to lie.
And I think your living in the past. <u>Americans arent' self reliant anymore. </u>
[/quote]WHAAAAT?!? maybe hippys and people living off welfare. That right there is scarier than ANYTHING mh has stated.
how much money have we borrowed over the past 30 years? Whats the condition of our employment rate? What have we let the medical and academic fields become? Hows our banking and mortgage crisis doing?
If we were truly self reliant we'd be in a MUCH better place. We have tried to be self reliant but it really hasn't worked.</u>
[/quote]Its the individual Matt, and it worked for over 200 years until recently. The problem is politicians saying were all victims and we need all these social and federal programs, outsourcing jobs, a war we didnt start, and countless other things.
The founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
the founding fathers argument.
Lets get real about the founding fathers as well. **** that was going on 40 years ago in this country, let alone 200 years, can't be applied to the way this world and country is today.
Your right it may of worked for 200 years, did we not hit a ceiling? Are things okay? You guys can spread your Obama hate all you want, but this country's damage wasn't done over night. We were setup to fail so whats that say about what the past 200 years actually did besides just give us 200 years.
The founding fathers might as well of been the authors of the bible as well. Great basic principals to a degree but can't relate to the world we are in today. They probably couldn't even fathom what this world would be like today. None of us can fathom what the world will be like in 200 years from now either.