1. #136321
    All-Pro dezzzR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying that he not on a trajectory to be a HOF'r. We're just saying that he is still in the middle of his career and he's not there yet. If he comes out the next two seasons and stinks it up a lot of people would rethink it. I don't expect that of course but thats why they play the games.

    And to say that if he never played another game he would be in the Hall doesn't make sense to me. He's had one truly great season and even there he wasn't even voted to the Pro Bowl. (of course you guys give great creadence to the "vote" for SB MVP) I guess in your minds one vote is OK but the other isn't)
    Even without the two superbowl MVPs, are there any 2 time sb winning qbs not in the hall? Many analyst say if he were to retire today hed be a lock. Imo, everything he does from here on out is extra fluff for his already HOF career.

  2. #136322
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavenIII View Post
    I've been saying it for 2-3 years, I think Eli has been good forever, Last year was just him showing how good he already was...honestly I don't think he actually improved in any major way last year when compared with the 2 years before that besides statistically...and that's because the new receivers finally figured out how he works.
    .
    I think he has improved in making everyone around him better over the past 3 seasons.......not that it's measurable or anything...but he definitely does do that.
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  3. #136323
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    Mh.... I'm not sure he'd be a shoe right now...my feeling is a couple more good seasons wouldn't hurt and prehaps cement his induction ....stopping right now could mean he doesn't get in first ballot....I do see him in the hall when its all said and done tho as long "god forbid" injury doesn't take him out of the game...he is just to good a player and cares to much about his game for that not to happen ....he's in
    Last edited by byron; 08-08-2012 at 02:10 PM.

  4. #136324
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavenIII View Post
    He's thrown for 4k+ yards and 25+TD's for the last 3 years....with pretty much rookie wide receivers mind you, also he has 2 Super bowl wins and MVPs (I never said pro bowls don't count...but those are voted on by fans super bowl MVP's are not) not to mention a knack for coming up big in clutch situations...

    I've been saying it for 2-3 years, I think Eli has been good forever, Last year was just him showing how good he already was...honestly I don't think he actually improved in any major way last year when compared with the 2 years before that besides statistically...and that's because the new receivers finally figured out how he works.

    He's a HOF QB right now even if he never plays again in my opinion, I know it doesn't make sense to you MH for me to say that but alternatively it doesn't make any sense at all to me....for anyone to even think about denying that...so I guess we just agree to disagree.
    He's a very good QB who's had a nice career. He's looked great at times and absolutely horrible at times. He's only been to one pro bowl and that was as a 3rd stringer. He's just not great yet. All you guys talk about how he'll accumulate enough stats but he hasn't yet. He's won 2 SB's and that a huge plus on his side of the ledger. But intil last season he wasn't even considered as a guy in the top 6 or 7 in the league. Right now I put him at 5 behind Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers. And thats coming off his best season by far.
    The guy has been clutch but he's also be horrible. He had two of the worst playoff games that a QB has ever had at home.
    I'm sure he's on his way, but not if he doesn't maintain the very high standard he set last season. If he returns to "pretty good" I don't think thats good enough.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  5. #136325
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPizzack View Post
    I think he has improved in making everyone around him better over the past 3 seasons.......not that it's measurable or anything...but he definitely does do that.
    Agreed. The only thing Elis gotten better at is leading and the way he carries himself. After 09 it really seemed like he took the Giants reins. I remember seeing him yell at either bradshaw or manningham and laughing to myself "who the hell is this guy". Also I believe elis and tucks no nonsense, all business approach is contagious, especially now that theyre champions once again.

  6. #136326
    All-Pro dezzzR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    He's a very good QB who's had a nice career. He's looked great at times and absolutely horrible at times. He's only been to one pro bowl and that was as a 3rd stringer. He's just not great yet. All you guys talk about how he'll accumulate enough stats but he hasn't yet. He's won 2 SB's and that a huge plus on his side of the ledger. But intil last season he wasn't even considered as a guy in the top 6 or 7 in the league. Right now I put him at 5 behind Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers. And thats coming off his best season by far.
    The guy has been clutch but he's also be horrible. He had two of the worst playoff games that a QB has ever had at home.
    I'm sure he's on his way, but not if he doesn't maintain the very high standard he set last season. If he returns to "pretty good" I don't think thats good enough.
    "Absolutely horrible at times."The last time i remember him playing "absolutely horrible" was against Min with all the pick 6's. 08 playoff game vs eagles was pretty bad too. His really bad games are few and far between MH.

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    we just weight things differently I suppose MH.

    I'm looking at it like this, suppose you need 100pts to get into the HOF.

    great statistics like last season will give you say 10pts towards the Hall, that's how guys like Marino got in, they have 10+ seasons like that and have records as well it puts them over 100.

    but I also see Super bowls wins as HUGE contributors...there are some "ok" QB's that won SB's an that's what put them over the top that are in the HOF.

    a SB win and MVP to me would be worth say 40 pts....eli has TWO that puts him at 80pts purely on the fact that he has SB wins and MVPs.

    Give him another 5 for the pro bowl appearance, give him another 10 for last years statistics.....and the two years before that were also pretty damn good years in my opinion even though you disagree...(because of the int's one year, which I'm sorry but...everyone knows they weren't on him) I'm gonna give him 5 for the two years before that.

    he's already in.

    throw in the fact that he spoiled a perfect season, that he's been clutch to the point of legend.... like Elway maybe even better then him, over his career thus far.

    I'm sorry Morehead, I just can't agree with you, you are down playing everything he's done outside of the superbowl wins and ALSO not giving him the credit he's due for those.

    I'm not being homerish I'm being objective you are reacting to people who are calling Eli the best QB ever and have turned against Eli, you don't look at it objectively I honestly believe if Eli was playing for another team you would be calling him a HOF...but because you have to deal with blowhards here jumping on his **** you've taken the other side just because you think someone has to.

  8. #136328
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    Quote Originally Posted by dezzzR View Post
    Agreed. The only thing Elis gotten better at is leading and the way he carries himself. After 09 it really seemed like he took the Giants reins. I remember seeing him yell at either bradshaw or manningham and laughing to myself "who the hell is this guy". Also I believe elis and tucks no nonsense, all business approach is contagious, especially now that theyre champions once again.
    if the end of last season "the all in mentality" that **** was real carries over they are going to be hard to beat .....I think BJ played a big part in the teams mentally down the stretch his loss could hurt us ... I can't wait man !
    Last edited by byron; 08-08-2012 at 02:25 PM.

  9. #136329
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavenIII View Post
    we just weight things differently I suppose MH.

    I'm looking at it like this, suppose you need 100pts to get into the HOF.

    great statistics like last season will give you say 10pts towards the Hall, that's how guys like Marino got in, they have 10+ seasons like that and have records as well it puts them over 100.

    but I also see Super bowls wins as HUGE contributors...there are some "ok" QB's that won SB's an that's what put them over the top that are in the HOF.

    a SB win and MVP to me would be worth say 40 pts....eli has TWO that puts him at 80pts purely on the fact that he has SB wins and MVPs.

    Give him another 5 for the pro bowl appearance, give him another 10 for last years statistics.....and the two years before that were also pretty damn good years in my opinion even though you disagree...(because of the int's one year, which I'm sorry but...everyone knows they weren't on him) I'm gonna give him 5 for the two years before that.

    he's already in.

    throw in the fact that he spoiled a perfect season, that he's been clutch to the point of legend.... like Elway maybe even better then him, over his career thus far.

    I'm sorry Morehead, I just can't agree with you, you are down playing everything he's done outside of the superbowl wins and ALSO not giving him the credit he's due for those.

    I'm not being homerish I'm being objective you are reacting to people who are calling Eli the best QB ever and have turned against Eli, you don't look at it objectively I honestly believe if Eli was playing for another team you would be calling him a HOF...but because you have to deal with blowhards here jumping on his **** you've taken the other side just because you think someone has to.
    and the ground he's standing on is slowly sinking into the sea of Eli !!!...

  10. #136330
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavenIII View Post
    we just weight things differently I suppose MH.

    I'm looking at it like this, suppose you need 100pts to get into the HOF.

    great statistics like last season will give you say 10pts towards the Hall, that's how guys like Marino got in, they have 10+ seasons like that and have records as well it puts them over 100.

    but I also see Super bowls wins as HUGE contributors...there are some "ok" QB's that won SB's an that's what put them over the top that are in the HOF.

    a SB win and MVP to me would be worth say 40 pts....eli has TWO that puts him at 80pts purely on the fact that he has SB wins and MVPs.

    Give him another 5 for the pro bowl appearance, give him another 10 for last years statistics.....and the two years before that were also pretty damn good years in my opinion even though you disagree...(because of the int's one year, which I'm sorry but...everyone knows they weren't on him) I'm gonna give him 5 for the two years before that.

    he's already in.

    throw in the fact that he spoiled a perfect season, that he's been clutch to the point of legend.... like Elway maybe even better then him, over his career thus far.

    I'm sorry Morehead, I just can't agree with you, you are down playing everything he's done outside of the superbowl wins and ALSO not giving him the credit he's due for those.

    I'm not being homerish I'm being objective you are reacting to people who are calling Eli the best QB ever and have turned against Eli, you don't look at it objectively I honestly believe if Eli was playing for another team you would be calling him a HOF...but because you have to deal with blowhards here jumping on his **** you've taken the other side just because you think someone has to.
    The second SB he gets all the credit in the world for for me. He was the best player on the team and played great. The first SB season he played pretty badly for a lot of the season, including the MN game that Dez mentioned (I believe that was 07) and that horrific Buffalo game where KG would let him pass on third and long because he was so horrible that day. His playoff run was compitent in that he protected the ball which is the most important thing at the time. His productivity other wise was right around his average. (220 yards/game, 1,5 TD's per game). Tuck was the real MVP in that SB.
    So in my view he's had one great season. He was 4th in passing. Probably deserved a pro bowl. But other than that he's just been "very good". If he continues to play like he did last season, he's gunna be a HOF'r. No doubt about it. But lets see it.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

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