1. #162781
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by DSP View Post
    Most lyrical? That is some of the worst nonsense ive ever heard.

    The amount of unique words means absolutely nothing. It does not matter how many different words you are using but what the content of what you are saying is. Im a songwriter and I could easily go through a dictionary and use as many onscure words as possible and say absolutely nothing that makes any sense. I know this because ive done it before and my lyric writing improved drastically when I grew past that.

    Having pac at the bottom of that scale alone invalidates the analysis. Tupac was one of if not the most poinant lyricists. He trancended the genre and is appreciated by people who are not fans of rap because of the content of his lyrics. He was a true poet and you could simply read his lyrics alone.

    Im a fan of extreme technical metal and we are probably the harshest critics of lyrical content around. Most are very snobish about it. Tupac is one of the few rappers who can be appreciated across those lines.
    Pac repeated himself, alot. He wasnt very lyrically gifted. As pizz mentioned, he's a story teller

  2. #162782
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,635
    Quote Originally Posted by Imgrate View Post
    Pac repeated himself, alot. He wasnt very lyrically gifted. As pizz mentioned, he's a story teller
    What does "lyrically gifted" mean?

    Using a lot of different words does not mean quality writing. Literature, with the exception of academic writings, is an attempt to tell a good story, something that does not require an arbitrarily large vocabulary. Such a thing can detract from its intention and make a story confusing. There needs to be a balance between simplicity and diversity.

    Think of some of the most emotionally impactful music in your life. Do they all have a massive diversity of words? Probably not.

    Rap is typically not an emotionally gripping genre. It is enjoyed for its party and dance atmosphere and as a display of speaking skill.

    Tupac is one of the most emotionally gripping rappers with a diverse body of work and didnt really on tongue twisting verses. You can argue it takes more skill to have an impact on someone with a simple verse rather than a complicated one.

    A good comparison in metal would be the difference between technical and symphonic bands. Technical metal bands are mostly appreciated by musicians for the display of skill but the music is deeply lacking a primal emotional element. Symphonic metal on the other hand is more of a listeners genre which has more appeal to people who dont have a technical grasp of instrumentation.

    Perhaps tupac isnt appreciated by a lot of people from a technical aspect by people who rap, but he has a much wider appeal for tapping in to a listeners emotions.

    Im saying this from a standpoint of a person who vehemently despises the majority of the genre. It says a lot that tupac can get through to someone like me and a significant portion of the metalheads I know.

    Bottom line though, there is no academic way to analyze music. Art is a mysterious thing.

  3. #162783
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Trap house
    Posts
    32,980
    Quote Originally Posted by DSP View Post
    What does "lyrically gifted" mean?

    Using a lot of different words does not mean quality writing. Literature, with the exception of academic writings, is an attempt to tell a good story, something that does not require an arbitrarily large vocabulary. Such a thing can detract from its intention and make a story confusing. There needs to be a balance between simplicity and diversity.

    Think of some of the most emotionally impactful music in your life. Do they all have a massive diversity of words? Probably not.

    Rap is typically not an emotionally gripping genre. It is enjoyed for its party and dance atmosphere and as a display of speaking skill.

    Tupac is one of the most emotionally gripping rappers with a diverse body of work and didnt really on tongue twisting verses. You can argue it takes more skill to have an impact on someone with a simple verse rather than a complicated one.

    A good comparison in metal would be the difference between technical and symphonic bands. Technical metal bands are mostly appreciated by musicians for the display of skill but the music is deeply lacking a primal emotional element. Symphonic metal on the other hand is more of a listeners genre which has more appeal to people who dont have a technical grasp of instrumentation.

    Perhaps tupac isnt appreciated by a lot of people from a technical aspect by people who rap, but he has a much wider appeal for tapping in to a listeners emotions.

    Im saying this from a standpoint of a person who vehemently despises the majority of the genre. It says a lot that tupac can get through to someone like me and a significant portion of the metalheads I know.

    Bottom line though, there is no academic way to analyze music. Art is a mysterious thing.
    This is very true. Well said.


    And I'm not claiming you said these things Pizz, but here's the difference between someone who is a griping artist, and an artist who comes up with cool, complicated lyrics with no true meaning.


    Tupac.
    Lil' Wayne.

    Please support.

  4. #162784
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,635
    Quote Originally Posted by JPizzack View Post
    I respectfully disagree.
    To have a vocabulary would definitely put you ahead of the curve in terms of writing pretty much anything you could possibly think of.
    Tupac was a story teller....that's another part that makes a great rapper. It's more than just that though.
    No offense, but I don't want to have a debate about rap....seems kinda dumb lol
    Im not debating rap itself. My point is that literature cant be measured just by vocabulary.

    Im speaking just about the words and disregarding the music itself. It would be like defining a painters merit based on his color pallete alone.

    Im not trying to say tupac is better than so and so. I just dont think its accurate to say someones lyrics arent good because he doesnt use a lot of different words.

  5. #162785
    All-Pro JPizzack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Posts
    26,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    This is very true. Well said.


    And I'm not claiming you said these things Pizz, but here's the difference between someone who is a griping artist, and an artist who comes up with cool, complicated lyrics with no true meaning.


    Tupac.
    Lil' Wayne.
    Lil Wayne is basically all about nonsense...he even tries to rhyme ridiculous things that DONT ACTUALLY even rhyme, and makes up metaphors that arent actually metaphors. His wordplay is such garbage. and that's like his punchline. He's def among one of the worst rappers out in that respect.
    Last edited by JPizzack; 05-15-2014 at 02:02 PM.
    Oderint Dum Metuant

  6. #162786
    All-Pro dezzzR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    29,909
    Quote Originally Posted by Imgrate View Post
    Pac repeated himself, alot. He wasnt very lyrically gifted. As pizz mentioned, he's a story teller
    Agreed. Hes over rated because he was shot and killed.
    He had a great flow though

    His beats werent that great either

  7. #162787
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Trap house
    Posts
    32,980
    Lmao Bill said the funniest (and rather true) thing to me.
    He was like "Tupac is such a ****ing hypocrite." And he's right.


    How are you going to make a song about treating women right, but then turn around and use the word to refer to women like that? And not just that.

    Please support.

  8. #162788
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Trap house
    Posts
    32,980
    Quote Originally Posted by JPizzack View Post
    Lil Wayne is basically all about nonsense...he even tries to rhyme ridiculous things that DONT ACTUALLY even rhyme, and makes up metaphors that arent actually metaphors. His wordplay is such garbage. and that's like his punchline. He's def among one of the worst rappers out in that respect.
    Right on.

    Please support.

  9. #162789
    All-Pro JPizzack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Posts
    26,683
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    Right on.
    Have you seen the Louis CK standup where he talks about ordering coffee at some indie coffee shop he just happened to walk into, and the most racist thing he accidentally thought of while there?
    Your "right on" immediately reminded me of that, and i lol'd at work....

    If this makes no sense to you, my bad...lmao
    Oderint Dum Metuant

  10. #162790
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Trap house
    Posts
    32,980
    Quote Originally Posted by JPizzack View Post
    Have you seen the Louis CK standup where he talks about ordering coffee at some indie coffee shop he just happened to walk into, and the most racist thing he accidentally thought of while there?
    Your "right on" immediately reminded me of that, and i lol'd at work....

    If this makes no sense to you, my bad...lmao
    Lmfao Hahahahahahahahahaha I remember that!

    Please support.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts