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Thread: It's time to end the Ponzi Scheme...

  1. #41
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delicreep View Post
    Can you let me know what option I have other than blind trust?

    For that matter, what option do the fans of the Raiders have other than blind trust?

    I am not going to pretend that I have even a basic understanding of caponomics*, the effect of much of the restructuring, the available options other than restructuring and the effect of cutting people outright.

    And even if I did have a mastery of the subject, I am here on a couch with no authority other than to make this post.

    Here's what I do know...the guys running the show for the Giants are the most successful group in the last decade.







    * I want a nickle every time that word is used from now on
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  2. #42
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delicreep View Post
    Can you let me know what option I have other than blind trust?

    For that matter, what option do the fans of the Raiders have other than blind trust?

    I am not going to pretend that I have even a basic understanding of caponomics*, the effect of much of the restructuring, the available options other than restructuring and the effect of cutting people outright.

    And even if I did have a mastery of the subject, I am here on a couch with no authority other than to make this post.

    Here's what I do know...the guys running the show for the Giants are the most successful group in the last decade.







    * I want a nickle every time that word is used from now on.
    We're just talking about for the purposes of discussion.
    My point is that we should be able to discuss our agreement or disagreement with anything the FO does without some poster saying that "JR knows more than you" as some kind of blanket retort to end the discussion.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    Are you saying Reese is alone in this? No other teams face these problems? We don't wan them to spend the CAP to be able to contend?
    I want Reese to spend the cap, but I want him to spend it on players that will actually have a positive impact on our team. Diehl, despite his declining ability over the last two years, is going to incur a cap hike from a manageable 4.5M in 2012 to 7.5M in 2013. Tuck, despite doing jack this year, is going to be a 5.6M hit. Baas is 6.7M. And that's not even bringing up Rolle, Canty, etc. that are valuable players to us but still are major cap hits.

    The big problem I'm seeing now is that most of the good players are free agents (Eli, JPP, and Nicks are the only critical players we have that are still under contract), and most of the underperformers are signed through the year already... We're not going to be able to sign all of Cruz, the Browns, Marty, and KP, which are the 5 high-priority Giants FA. We'd be lucky to get 3 of them. Because we got screwed over by all this restructuring...


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  4. #44
    All-Pro CDN_G-FAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadofsteel View Post
    I want Reese to spend the cap, but I want him to spend it on players that will actually have a positive impact on our team. Diehl, despite his declining ability over the last two years, is going to incur a cap hike from a manageable 4.5M in 2012 to 7.5M in 2013. Tuck, despite doing jack this year, is going to be a 5.6M hit. Baas is 6.7M. And that's not even bringing up Rolle, Canty, etc. that are valuable players to us but still are major cap hits.

    The big problem I'm seeing now is that most of the good players are free agents (Eli, JPP, and Nicks are the only critical players we have that are still under contract), and most of the underperformers are signed through the year already... We're not going to be able to sign all of Cruz, the Browns, Marty, and KP, which are the 5 high-priority Giants FA. We'd be lucky to get 3 of them. Because we got screwed over by all this restructuring...
    technically, i think we're screwed by free agent signings from outside the organization. i don't know how many of the players you've mentioned we actually restructured, or was this just how their deals were originally drawn up.

    we've invested $18 million a season (in 2013 cap dollars) between Rolle and Canty. and i think we have some dead money from restructuring rocky too.

    any restructuring was what Reese was doing because of these FA signings that while they've been productive for us, haven't been good bang for our buck at all.


    the Webby thing is also really screwing us. Webby Rolle and Canty = $27 million in cap $. That makes me sick. Sick.

  5. #45
    Hall of Famer Harooni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    Sure they are ... we didn't re-sign or restructure Smith or Boss and we did restructure Diehl.
    but that is exactly the point Krunch , we were already in such bad cap shape that we then could not afford to re-sign them. we also were forced to play guys we would normally not play because we could not afford to upgrade in FA.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
    technically, i think we're screwed by free agent signings from outside the organization. i don't know how many of the players you've mentioned we actually restructured, or was this just how their deals were originally drawn up.

    we've invested $18 million a season (in 2013 cap dollars) between Rolle and Canty. and i think we have some dead money from restructuring rocky too.

    any restructuring was what Reese was doing because of these FA signings that while they've been productive for us, haven't been good bang for our buck at all.


    the Webby thing is also really screwing us. Webby Rolle and Canty = $27 million in cap $. That makes me sick. Sick.
    As much as I'm a Reese homer, his FA signings make me scratch my head.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Harooni View Post
    but that is exactly the point Krunch , we were already in such bad cap shape that we then could not afford to re-sign them. we also were forced to play guys we would normally not play because we could not afford to upgrade in FA.
    It wasn't we couldn't afford Boss or Smith ... we just didn't want to pay what they wanted.

    And losing Smith eventually led to us having Cruz and go on to win another SB.

    Not to mention both Smith and Boss went on to do absolutely nothing in the league.

    I'd call that pretty damn good management, wouldn't you?

  8. #48
    Hall of Famer Harooni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    It wasn't we couldn't afford Boss or Smith ... we just didn't want to pay what they wanted.

    And losing Smith eventually led to us having Cruz and go on to win another SB.

    Not to mention both Smith and Boss went on to do absolutely nothing in the league.

    I'd call that pretty damn good management, wouldn't you?
    i thought it was the right moves but again mostly because we were trying to get under the cap.


    krunch can you do me a favor, i cant find the 2013 cap penalties for , canty ,diehl, tuck, webster,boley and baas . if cut or traded,

    thanks if you have them

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Harooni View Post
    i thought it was the right moves but again mostly because we were trying to get under the cap.


    krunch can you do me a favor, i cant find the 2013 cap penalties for , canty ,diehl, tuck, webster,boley and baas . if cut or traded,

    thanks if you have them
    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/

    Click on the individual to get the contract specifics. You save base salary and the first $150-250k of the "Misc. Bonus" which is typically the work out bonus (assuming you're cutting before OTAs). Signing bonuses and the remainder of the Misc. Bonus must be paid if cut.

    This doesn't include any weirdness in the contract itself (such as deferrals and what not which are rarities).

    At least that's how the aliens explained it to me.

  10. #50
    Hall of Famer Harooni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/

    Click on the individual to get the contract specifics. You save base salary and the first $150-250k of the "Misc. Bonus" which is typically the work out bonus (assuming you're cutting before OTAs). Signing bonuses and the remainder of the Misc. Bonus must be paid if cut.

    This doesn't include any weirdness in the contract itself (such as deferrals and what not which are rarities).

    At least that's how the aliens explained it to me.
    lol thanks i used this site and saw they had 2012 hits but was too lazy to break it down and did not want to do the math wrong. was hoping it was done so i can evaluate for myself who should be cut

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