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Thread: Great breakdown of the Giants needs and mistakes.

  1. #21
    Veteran GoDeep80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    Can't find it ... basically (off of memory at the draft) Reese said that Cordy Glenn and David Wilson were so close, that he went with the position of most need (ironic considering OL was considered more in need than a RB by pretty much everybody).

    When asked about Doug Martin, Reese said he had Wilson rated higher and as the highest rated RB where we picked. Somehow that got condensed to "highest rated player". But I'll keep digging for it.
    I remember him saying it too. he picked Wilson because he knew that teams were going to go on a run with RBs in the second and saw deeper talent in the OL class than RB.

  2. #22
    All-Pro CDN_G-FAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    Can't find it ... basically (off of memory at the draft) Reese said that Cordy Glenn and David Wilson were so close, that he went with the position of most need (ironic considering OL was considered more in need than a RB by pretty much everybody).

    When asked about Doug Martin, Reese said he had Wilson rated higher and as the highest rated RB where we picked. Somehow that got condensed to "highest rated player". But I'll keep digging for it.
    Really? with bradshaw unable to practice and Jacobs unable to get on the field on another team other than ours, i certainly thought we had more need at RB than OL.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by CDN_G-FAN View Post
    Really? with bradshaw unable to practice and Jacobs unable to get on the field on another team other than ours, i certainly thought we had more need at RB than OL.
    It was the off season. Jacobs and Bradshaw were both healthy (well as healthy as Bradshaw ever is) and we had three potentials behind them in Brown, Ware and Scott. Not exactly a need (especially if you consider ages of all involved).

    Conversely we had an aging offensive line, a LT everyone thought was done (DD) and a RT we didn't want to re-sign (KM) and backups who have seen little or no playing time (Petrus, Brewer, etc ...).
    Last edited by Kruunch; 01-03-2013 at 01:14 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep80 View Post
    I remember him saying it too. he picked Wilson because he knew that teams were going to go on a run with RBs in the second and saw deeper talent in the OL class than RB.
    Thanks (good to know I'm not totally senile these days).

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by GoDeep80 View Post
    I remember him saying it too. he picked Wilson because he knew that teams were going to go on a run with RBs in the second and saw deeper talent in the OL class than RB.
    That was pretty much it. I also assume he thought Wilson was the superior athlete versus Glenn because he can never stop talking about this kid's physical ability in interviews. I dunno...I've voiced my displeasure with the pick multiple times so I'll leave it at that.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    That was pretty much it. I also assume he thought Wilson was the superior athlete versus Glenn because he can never stop talking about this kid's physical ability in interviews. I dunno...I've voiced my displeasure with the pick multiple times so I'll leave it at that.
    I didn't mind the pick personally ... just illustrating greed over need in this case (and what *seems* to be Reese's generally philosophy on OL positions in general).

    Having said that, I can see it coming back to bite us in the keister if this trend continues. The more you gamble, the more chances you have to lose (ala Marvin Austin).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    I didn't mind the pick personally ... just illustrating greed over need in this case (and what *seems* to be Reese's generally philosophy on OL positions in general).

    Having said that, I can see it coming back to bite us in the keister if this trend continues. The more you gamble, the more chances you have to lose (ala Marvin Austin).
    It was just a case of how well we do with later round RBs and then you look back in our history with our misfortune with 1st round RBs. Woolfolk, Bunch, I'm sure I'm missing someone...and yes, I'm a tad superstitious in that regard. Plus, Glenn is a versatile lineman and it just made too much sense. Hopefully Wilson beasts next year and shuts me up.

  8. #28
    All-Pro CDN_G-FAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    Well all of this is hindsight. JPP was the sexier and more aggressive pick ... Iupati was the safer pick. Obviously if JPP didn't work out (or if he goes south now as well as our offensive line) then we'd look back and say "wow, that was a miss". You can also make the argument (and fairly valid one) that the difference between a late first round OG and a late fourth round OG isn't all that great (while the same can't be said for DEs since they're so coveted).

    The Austin pick was the exact same deal. A bonafide top 10 draft prospect who slipped due to being kicked out of school but with immense measurables and resume. He took the gamble but this time it hasn't paid off (yet). Then again, for as good as Sean Lee is (and I wanted him SOOOOO badly) he can't seem to stay on the field 100% either.

    So my love of typing brings us to this ... Everything is amazingly clear in the rear view mirror.



    I bet he had this exact conversation in his own head and since it wasn't obvious, he went with what he thought best ("him" being the FO in general).



    JPP was a wish and a prayer (not to mention 14 back flips in a row by a DE prospect). Tons of physical measurables but not off the charts. Conversely, an OG at that spot who might be "good" but not considered a blue chipper just wasn't as sexy. The JPP pick definitely wasn't BPA though (at least by any measurable other than back flips).



    Spags started the Nascar package in 2007 with Osi, Tuck and Strahan (remember Tuck playing DT?). It was a defensive wrinkle that lasted for a few games and worked especially well against teams who couldn't run the ball well. It's not a defensive scheme (although we've used it as such over the past 3 years to our regret).

    The idea was (and still is) to put the best players on the field (that's why Kiwi is playing LBer). Unfortunately, the "best players" aren't necessarily the best at every position. There's a reason why DTs are usually 300lbs+ and SAM backers aren't. This is one philosophy I don't agree with (sort of like Andy Reid promoting an offensive line coach to Defensive Coordinator /facepalm).
    we'll have to agree to disagree on JPP, even as a project seeing him as 'good' already was reasonable, i didn't know squat about Mike Iupati but both draft reports i just read called him a bit raw and a project as well. while the backflips is what we as fans had access to the scouts probably spent more time talking to coaches and teachers and less time on youtube than we all did. this pick was a lot more BPA, especially if the standard is Iupati.

    i wasn't mentioning nascar as scheme, more a philosophy of having more talent at DE than you need, which results in a defensive strategy almost entirely focused on the passrush and getting turnovers off that passrush.

  9. #29
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruunch View Post
    This past draft, we took David Wilson instead of Cordy Glenn. Reese even admitted that Cordy Glenn was rated higher.
    Could have been very concerned about Glenns injury history with his back, and also could have thought there were later OL who had similar ability, while there were no later HBs with similar ability to Wilson

  10. #30
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    And I completely disagree HB wasent a need. Jacobs was released. Bradshaw was injured. Brown had done nothing in the NFL, and the giants had the worst running game in the league with almost no explosive plays at all from that position.

    HB was certainly a need. A pretty significant one at the time.

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