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Thread: Victor Cruz Expected to Seek $8 - 10 Million Per Season

  1. #391
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainierjef View Post
    Simmadownnaw!
    No one is crucifying Cruz. Personally drops happen, but most of Cruz's drops happen cause he is anticipating the hit coming, looking up field for where the defenders are and not looking the ball in. Also he tends to fall to the floor if defenders are close in proximity too him. That's what I mean by playing small ROA. Coaches would say to receivers especially in high school, play bigger than the competition. Meaning fight for every yard, put your body on the line and leave everything on the field. Cruz does not do this like he used to when he was playing for a roster spot and i understand smaller frame
    speed receiver going up against big outside corners, safety's, or line backers, playing on a ****ty contract and doing well in it. He wants to preserve his. body, fair enough; but you want that top tier receiver pay then you have to be a player similar to the likes of welker in respect to size/speed/grit. He's not afraid to get hit over the middle and plays on a ****ty contract. When i make this comparison, don't think yards, drops, yac, think approach to the game and style of play.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion based upon whatever criteria they find to be important. On the flip side, others who may disagree, are entitled to express their disagreement. And then there are the totally outlandish posts that speak for themselves.

    For me, dropped passes don't tell the whole story. Sinorice Moss rarely dropped a pass. Jerry Reese once said "he catches everything thrown to him." But where is he now? What did he produce for this team?

    You have to look at a player's entire body of work.
    Last edited by RoanokeFan; 01-06-2013 at 09:44 AM.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1


  2. #392
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    Overrection is a way of life here, that's what fans do on both sides of every issue. For me, personally, the overwhelming number of negative threads is mind boggling. But it is what it is and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
    Are the negative things that are being said true? Like dropped passes, lack of focus? I'm not sure what you mean by outlandish. You have to look at both the positive and the negative. Again, we do it with everyone else on the team.

    Let's go.

  3. #393
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    Are the negative things that are being said true? Like dropped passes, lack of focus? I'm not sure what you mean by outlandish. You have to look at both the positive and the negative. Again, we do it with everyone else on the team.
    Yes, we do, and what's outlandish to me may be perfectly acceptable to you.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1


  4. #394
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    Yes, we do, and what's outlandish to me may be perfectly acceptable to you.
    I guess so.

    Let's go.

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    Are the negative things that are being said true? Like dropped passes, lack of focus? I'm not sure what you mean by outlandish. You have to look at both the positive and the negative. Again, we do it with everyone else on the team.
    Unless that player is named Eli, then the townsfolk break out the pitchforks

  6. #396
    Cruz, dispite his numbers from 2011, is a second reciever in my book, not a top tier first receiver. When Nicks was hurt and playing when he shouldn't have been, Cruz's production dropped way off. He's not a guy that beats double coverage often, and he's really best from the slot. The reality of the salary cap situation is that the Giants have no choice but to look at Cruz as a number two, and pay him as a two, generously as a two; but still a two. It may boil down to an either or situation between Cruz and Nicks. They simply might not be able to have both. With Nicks' injury history, and Cruz's questionable value as a number one WR, I'm glad I'm not in JR shoes right now. If you sign Cruz; but then loose Nicks next year, how will that work out? Or if Cruz departs and Nicks continues to have injury problems, then that makes the GM look bad too. It's kind of a no win for JR. We probably can't afford both, unless both give a lot to stay; and if you pick the wrong one to stay it might hurt the team for years. Rueben Randle plays a big part in this. If Randle develops well, he can probably replace Nicks. So I'm thinking it's likely that we'll see Cruz resigned, and the pain will be pushed down the road to next year. That gives JR another year to see how Nicks' injuries go, and to see how Randle develops. Best case is that Victor is determined to stay with the Gmen, and does a favorable contract for them. If he does that, then you've at least got a chance of signing Nicks too.

  7. #397
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorwoodBlue View Post
    Cruz, dispite his numbers from 2011, is a second reciever in my book, not a top tier first receiver. When Nicks was hurt and playing when he shouldn't have been, Cruz's production dropped way off. He's not a guy that beats double coverage often, and he's really best from the slot. The reality of the salary cap situation is that the Giants have no choice but to look at Cruz as a number two, and pay him as a two, generously as a two; but still a two. It may boil down to an either or situation between Cruz and Nicks. They simply might not be able to have both. With Nicks' injury history, and Cruz's questionable value as a number one WR, I'm glad I'm not in JR shoes right now. If you sign Cruz; but then loose Nicks next year, how will that work out? Or if Cruz departs and Nicks continues to have injury problems, then that makes the GM look bad too. It's kind of a no win for JR. We probably can't afford both, unless both give a lot to stay; and if you pick the wrong one to stay it might hurt the team for years. Rueben Randle plays a big part in this. If Randle develops well, he can probably replace Nicks. So I'm thinking it's likely that we'll see Cruz resigned, and the pain will be pushed down the road to next year. That gives JR another year to see how Nicks' injuries go, and to see how Randle develops. Best case is that Victor is determined to stay with the Gmen, and does a favorable contract for them. If he does that, then you've at least got a chance of signing Nicks too.
    They actually can afford both as they don't have to deal with Nicks until next season. That will benefit Nicks if he has a healthy, productive season and it will benefit the team if his injuries continue to the extent they stunt his production. If for no other reason than they have to deal with Cruz this season it would be wise to sign him.

    I don't like numbering players as # 1 and #2. I prefer to just look at the numbers and go from there. Cruz having better numbers than Nicks for two straight doesn't necessarily make Cruz the better player. But those numbers play a huge part in contract negotiations as does Pro Bowl selection. Personally, I think the Pro Bowl is little more than beauty contest and the game itself should be scrapped. Yet, we continue to see players discusses in terms of "Pro Bowler" as though it's a badge of honor.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1


  8. #398
    All-Pro Rudyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShakeandBake View Post
    Unless that player is named Eli, then the townsfolk break out the pitchforks
    Actually we do it to Eli more than any other player but he "deserves it". But Victor gets a pass. Oh ok. I am one of Victor Cruz's biggest fans but in no way do I exclude the negative side of him. It doesn't outweigh the good of course, just pointing it out.

    Let's go.

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Did you read the thread? Everyone is looking at the negatives of why he shouldn't be here anymore. Like the drops. Which is a pitiful argument sicne it's only a handufl of plays but it's apparently a huge issue. Yet none of these posters would claim Roddy White is a bad receiver depsite him being a consistent league leader in drops.

    Hakeem during 2010 and 2011 was among league leaders in drops too but everyone loves Hakeem so they don't care. Cruz comes in has a great season, steals the shine from Nicks and now everyone can't wait to get rid of him.

    I won't pretend to speak for any one else but I don't consider viewing his entire body of work in context to be slamming him. He's a very good receiver - in my opinion a top 10 receiver - and I don't see how that's an insult. Yes, I think that some posters are leaning to hard to the negative but overall I think most everybody wants him back but are realistic to know the difference between very good and elite.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudyy View Post
    Actually we do it to Eli more than any other player but he "deserves it". But Victor gets a pass. Oh ok. I am one of Victor Cruz's biggest fans but in no way do I exclude the negative side of him. It doesn't outweigh the good of course, just pointing it out.
    Eli is talked about most because he is the quarterback, that is inevitably going to happen. Everyone deserves it this year, they all played like garbage. I don't see many people giving Cruz a free pass, but if someone dares to criticize Eli their fanhood is questioned which I don't see happening when other players are being criticized.

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