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Thread: Could Cruz leave?

  1. #111
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    We need to stop the personal attacks

  2. #112
    All-Pro gmen46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantsfan241 View Post
    My logic is not flawed and we do have the players to replace a person like Cruz he's not a top 5 wr.
    If your logic is not flawed, it's because it is non existent.

    "We do have the players to replace a person like Cruz he's not a top 5 wr"?

    Assuming you are not referring to Nicks as a replacement for Cruz (since Nicks is already in the mix), what replacement player do you have in mind that would replace Cruz' "inferior" numbers of 2012? Who do we currently have on the roster that you know FOR CERTAIN will match Cruz in impact on the offense?

    You imply that simply because Cruz was not a "top 5" WR this year that he's easily replaceable. Really that simple, huh?

    Cruz was not top 5 in all statistics this year, that's true. I'd say he was top 10.

    I don't know what matrix you are using to meet your "top 5" qualification, but just using a few common statistical WR measuring sticks fro 2012 Cruz was---

    6th(T) in TDs (10), tied with M. Colston, Julio Jones, Demarius Thomas

    7th(T) in longest reception of the year (80 yds)

    10th in receptions (86)

    15th in total yds

    But stats by themselves do not indicate a receivers total worth to a QB and to a team's offense. This year (vs 2011) Cruz arguably caught out of the slot position somewhat more than he did last year, which can have some impact upon a receiver's yds per catch average. Cruz was referred to multiple times this year by no less than Troy Aikman (not that he's the one-and-only expert on the matter, but he DOES know something about receivers and their talent) as the "best slot receiver in the league right now". The value to a QB of a highly reliable slot receiver is measured by much more than yardage.

    As I say, Cruz is not "top 5" WR, but so what? At the very least he's been a top 10 receiver for the last 2 seasons. Out of approx 195 active WRs every year on 32 teams, top 10 is highly valuable. And not nearly as "easy to replace" as you claim.

    I love what Hixon has brought to our team, when healthy, including this season. I love the occasional flashes we saw from Randle, as well. I'm convinced he will be a valuable part of our WR stable. But their value is as strong components of our receiving corps, not as "easy replacements" for Cruz.

    You are revealing a lack of understanding and appreciation for the rare talent that is Cruz.

  3. #113
    Longest reception? Really? That's a "important" stat? Any bench player can go out and catch a 60 yard pass if they have speed and the D makes the wrong adjustment in the secondary.

    We have players on this team that can step up if Cruz leaves... if Cruz was injured all of last year would you not put faith in the likes of Hixon, Randle, Jernigan, Barden?

    Nicks was injured and players stepped up and played well, if they were given consistent playing time they might of played better... Cruz is replaceable with people on this time.

  4. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Mod_C View Post
    Change your sig
    LOL I dont have a sig.

  5. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by gmen46 View Post
    If your logic is not flawed, it's because it is non existent.

    "We do have the players to replace a person like Cruz he's not a top 5 wr"?

    Assuming you are not referring to Nicks as a replacement for Cruz (since Nicks is already in the mix), what replacement player do you have in mind that would replace Cruz' "inferior" numbers of 2012? Who do we currently have on the roster that you know FOR CERTAIN will match Cruz in impact on the offense?

    You imply that simply because Cruz was not a "top 5" WR this year that he's easily replaceable. Really that simple, huh?

    Cruz was not top 5 in all statistics this year, that's true. I'd say he was top 10.

    I don't know what matrix you are using to meet your "top 5" qualification, but just using a few common statistical WR measuring sticks fro 2012 Cruz was---

    6th(T) in TDs (10), tied with M. Colston, Julio Jones, Demarius Thomas

    7th(T) in longest reception of the year (80 yds)

    10th in receptions (86)

    15th in total yds

    But stats by themselves do not indicate a receivers total worth to a QB and to a team's offense. This year (vs 2011) Cruz arguably caught out of the slot position somewhat more than he did last year, which can have some impact upon a receiver's yds per catch average. Cruz was referred to multiple times this year by no less than Troy Aikman (not that he's the one-and-only expert on the matter, but he DOES know something about receivers and their talent) as the "best slot receiver in the league right now". The value to a QB of a highly reliable slot receiver is measured by much more than yardage.

    As I say, Cruz is not "top 5" WR, but so what? At the very least he's been a top 10 receiver for the last 2 seasons. Out of approx 195 active WRs every year on 32 teams, top 10 is highly valuable. And not nearly as "easy to replace" as you claim.

    I love what Hixon has brought to our team, when healthy, including this season. I love the occasional flashes we saw from Randle, as well. I'm convinced he will be a valuable part of our WR stable. But their value is as strong components of our receiving corps, not as "easy replacements" for Cruz.

    You are revealing a lack of understanding and appreciation for the rare talent that is Cruz.
    Well said

  6. #116
    All-Pro gmen46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantsfan241 View Post
    Longest reception? Really? That's a "important" stat? Any bench player can go out and catch a 60 yard pass if they have speed and the D makes the wrong adjustment in the secondary.

    We have players on this team that can step up if Cruz leaves... if Cruz was injured all of last year would you not put faith in the likes of Hixon, Randle, Jernigan, Barden?



    Nicks was injured and players stepped up and played well, if they were given consistent playing time they might of played better... Cruz is replaceable with people on this time.
    You're joking. Jernigan and Barden? Did you just begin watching the Giants, or football, this year for the first time? If that's the case, then you might get a pass on that statement. If not, you should be ashamed. You just gave up any expectation of credibility.

    If what Cruz accomplished last year AND this year were so easily replaceable, then any of the other 195 wide receivers this year would be able to do it. The fact is that very few could--or did--do what he did this year.

    As you mentioned, Nicks missed 3 games, and was ineffective in several other games he was in this year, due to his ongoing knee and foot issues.

    I've already given my props to Hixon and Randle. But they are not on Cruz' level. As one of the top 2-3 slot receivers in the game right now, Cruz accomplishes this by consistently running some of the best routes. Randle does not do that Hixon on occasion can, but not that often. More importantly, they all had opportunities this year, and only came through in 1 or 2 games.

    Cruz had the same opportunity to step up in 2011 when Manningham missed 1-2 games early in the season. He not only took advantage of the opportunity for 1 game or even 2 games. He stepped up and never looked back. Barden, Hixon, Randle each had A GAME where they stepped up, but then receded into their existing roles.

    If they were as capable to replace Cruz so easily as you insist, one or more of them would have done so this year when Nicks was down and/or ineffective when he was in.

    They didn't. You're wrong. It's easy to prove you wrong. And then you suggest--by asking me the question regarding them--that even Barden and Jernigan could "easily" replace Cruz. hahahahahahahahahahaha

  7. #117
    I never said they could bring the same level of play as Cruz does but Randle could be a very good reciever if given the chance, and be a suitable replacement without breaking the bank.

  8. #118
    Jernigan exhbitis some of the skills Cruz has, and Barden can make some good plays also.. it's not like if we don't resign cruz we are doomed, we have people who can step up and play. Our WR position is deep just like the RB spot, I know that two years ago it'd be crazy for me to say that we could replace Bradshaw with Brown but look at where we are now.

  9. #119
    All-Pro gmen46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantsfan241 View Post
    I never said they could bring the same level of play as Cruz does but Randle could be a very good reciever if given the chance, and be a suitable replacement without breaking the bank.
    You imply they (our other 4 receivers) can bring the same level of play as Cruz, when you state each of them can "easily replace" him. You said that. You can't evade that statement by restating the same thing in slightly different terms. Many on this board try that tactic, when challenged, but it doesn't work.

    I've already stipulated I believe in Randle and see a lot of potential in him. But his contribution to our depth only counts as "depth" if we keep our current players. If you let Cruz go elsewhere, our "depth" decreases exponentially. And, if Randle DOES step up next year to Cruz level, then he, too, will command the "break the bank" dollars you are so afraid of. As it is, Randle is likely paid more than Cruz right now, since he's on a 2nd round draft pick salary scale, while Cruz is on a undrafted free agent pay contract (I've not looked up Randle's contract, but it stands to reason).

    Either way, you're arguing for letting a proven young receiver stud with several years of high level production go in exchange for hoping. Randle will replace him at a similar level (and if not as good as Cruz, then what's the advantage?). Meanwhile, who replaces Randle?

    You ever hear the phrase "penny wise, pound foolish"? You are an example of that phrase.

  10. #120
    All-Pro gmen46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giantsfan241 View Post
    Jernigan exhbitis some of the skills Cruz has, and Barden can make some good plays also.. it's not like if we don't resign cruz we are doomed, we have people who can step up and play. Our WR position is deep just like the RB spot, I know that two years ago it'd be crazy for me to say that we could replace Bradshaw with Brown but look at where we are now.
    Yes, look where we are now. Brown--as good as he has been on those rare occasions when he can actually play in a game--has been in the league for 4 years.
    He missed his entire rookie year due to torn achilles.
    He knocked around the league on 5-6 different teams his 2nd year, after Giants released him right before season started (because he couldn't make the cut), and could not stick with any of those teams because he still was unable to run like he could in college--
    He spent all of his 3rd season in the league on the Giants' practice squad. He was good enough for the Giants to want to give him a 2nd chance, but not good enough to make the roster in 2011.
    He finally, in season 4, shows the strength as a RB that originally attracted the Giants in 09, has a breakout game in Week 3 and earns a solid position as #2 RB, leads all Giants running backs in TDs, then breaks his leg and misses the last 6 games.

    Look at where we are now, indeed.

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