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Thread: Don't Understand ???

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    Kiffin also had 3 hall of fame players on that defense. Maybe more than that.
    Were they hall of fame players because of the coaching or because they were just that great... or possibly a combination of the two? Player skill obviously plays a big part in the success of a team, but to dismiss coaching as having no part in that is ridiculous. I am not going to try to argue that the Giants defense has as much talent as Kiffin had with his defenses, but there is no way I can accept that they have less talent than 30 other teams in the NFL. You might make a decent argument that the reason PF has struggled as a defensive coordinator is because he doesn't have the talent he needs, but when you try to compare PF to Kiffin when PF has never run a defense ranked in the top 10 let alone year in and year out, it defies logic.
    My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    What's a "successful season"?
    That's up to the front office to decide. Probably a playoff appearance.

  3. #23
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Were they hall of fame players because of the coaching or because they were just that great...
    They were great players because they were great players. Not because of Kiffin.

    Thats like saying LT was nothing special but Parcells made him great.

  4. #24
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    That's just it RF. I don't like the inconsistency. One day were lambasting the Saints the next day were struggling to keep up with the Bengals. One season we win the SB the next we miss the playoffs. I think a lot of it goes on coaching, speaking of the wide variance in focus and discipline because obviously with 2 SB wins the talent is there. What it really boils down to is 2 SBs in five years. That's all that matters. Give me 2 SBs and 3 0-16 seasons and I'm still happy. But just like every other irrational fan if we suck next year, I'll probably want a new OC and DC, and possibly a new coach.
    Nobody likes the inconsistency but to think we're going to get into the playoffs every year is a stretch. We had the same record this season as last and yet we're watching other teams play this year while we watched the Giants grab the brass ring last season. We could argue we had no business being in the playoffs last year at 9 - 7.

    At the beginning of the season, if anyone had said Tuck and Osi were going to bomb out they would have been laughed off the boards. Same if anyone had said Eli isn't going to throw a TD in 4 games or whatever it was. Fortunately, we aren't in need of rebuilding, just shoring up some obvious problem areas.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    They were great players because they were great players. Not because of Kiffin.

    Thats like saying LT was nothing special but Parcells made him great.
    Got it, so coaching is irrelevant... So when people on this board say KG or Coughlin must go, you shrug it off and say "who cares all coaches are the same", right? We could probably just bring back Ray Handley and still would have won 2 Super Bowls. I mean just because he took a SB team to an 8-8 record the next season then followed that with a 6-10 season doesn't mean he was a bad coach, LT, Simms etc were just lousy players.

    I am probably being ridiculous just thinking that ranking 25th and 30th in the NFL on defense in two seasons indicates that the coaching might be a problem. I mean, ranking 25th last year was pretty good considering the pass rush was non-existent... how can you have a good defense when you only get 46 sacks?

    Excuse my sarcasm, but this may be the most ridiculous discussion I have ever had on this board... comparing PF to Kiffin simply because they run a similar system... I guess next we can argue that Lovie Smith belongs in the hall of fame next to Billicheck because they both were defensive coordinators before they became head coaches.
    My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

  6. #26
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Got it, so coaching is irrelevant...
    No. But if two coaches are running a very similar scheme and one has multiple hall of fame players on it, while the other doesnt even have a single probowl guy? Well yea, that is probably pretty significant.

    The advantage back then with Kiffin was he was the first and only team running that scheme, so they could find the players for it later in the draft or for less money.

    Same as why the early 3-4 teams were so successful. Now everyone targets the same types of players which inflates their value.
    Last edited by slipknottin; 01-12-2013 at 12:47 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    No. But if two coaches are running a very similar scheme and one has multiple hall of fame players on it, while the other doesnt even have a single probowl guy? Well yea, that is probably pretty significant.

    The advantage back then with Kiffin was he was the first and only team running that scheme, so they could find the players for it later in the draft or for less money.

    Same as why the early 3-4 teams were so successful. Now everyone targets the same types of players which inflates their value.


    Sorry, I just can't continue this discussion, the notion that anyone would consider PF to be equal to Kiffin is just mind boggling.
    My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

  8. #28
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad View Post
    Sorry, I just can't continue this discussion, the notion that anyone would consider PF to be equal to Kiffin is just mind boggling.

    Who said Fewell was as good as Kiffin?

    I said they run the same or a very similar system.

    And it was amusing to me that everyone hates the system the giants run, but now dallas is going to run the same one.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    Who said Fewell was as good as Kiffin?

    I said they run the same or a very similar system.

    And it was amusing to me that everyone hates the system the giants run, but now dallas is going to run the same one.
    This whole back and forth started when I said you couldn't compare PF to Kiffen.... that has been my argument the whole time, not sure what you were arguing if we are in agreement there.
    My goal had been to win a championship, work toward the Hall of Fame, have my jersey retired by the team and I`d go in as a lifelong New York Giant, but I`m now resigned to the fact that this won`t happen. -- Michael Strahan, just when you think you're down...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    At the beginning of the season, if anyone had said Tuck and Osi were going to bomb out they would have been laughed off the boards. Same if anyone had said Eli isn't going to throw a TD in 4 games or whatever it was. Fortunately, we aren't in need of rebuilding, just shoring up some obvious problem areas.
    Sorry RF but I don’t think it is a big surprise to anyone that Tuck and Osi bombed out this year.

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