Think of how bad Tim Lewis & Bill Sheridan were...

[Redeyejedi]

The Defense was worse than the Offense for sure but the Defense wasnt the worst Giants defense ever . The Offense had its hiccups in 6 games they failed to score 20 points and they lost every 1. The 7th game they lost they scored exactly 20.
U cant expect to win games in this era not scoring 20 points

[Redeyejedi]

yeah but theres one huge caveat to all that, the 2011 D sucked in the regular season, they were a completely different unit come postseason...just bc the defense was better in some areas doesnt mean it was sufficient (which i dont think ur trying to argue, just clarifying).

and 3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense

There was a huge difference in the Defense in games K Phillips played. In the games Phillips played they gave up 18 ppg in games he didnt 25.5. Looked like to me Fewell was willing to be more aggressive with coverage when he played

[BlueSanta]

"3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense"

very true.

You know what matters even more? Point allowed. The primary function of a defense is, after all, to keep the other team from scoring. This years defense was bad, but the 2009 defense let up almost 5 more points per game. They still get my vote.

[ELI_HOF_NYG]

You know what matters even more? Point allowed. The primary function of a defense is, after all, to keep the other team from scoring. This years defense was bad, but the 2009 defense let up almost 5 more points per game. They still get my vote.

point arent allowed if you stop them on 3rd down and force them to punt.

[gmen46]

yeah but theres one huge caveat to all that, the 2011 D sucked in the regular season, they were a completely different unit come postseason...just bc the defense was better in some areas doesnt mean it was sufficient (which i dont think ur trying to argue, just clarifying).

and 3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense

You're right about the pick-up in our defense in the post season. But I also think it's important to factor in their last 2 reg season games as the beginning of their defensive improvement, which I think you'll agree was a large part of the reason for that 6 game run. And is the reason I consider comparing 2012 season to 2011 reg season numbers as a valid comparison, as far as they go.

Yes, the 3rd dwn percentage hurt us in a major way in most of our losses, which I was trying to say was more meaningful to our losses than mere total yards allowed, which again, I think most would agree.

But I neglected to include another defensive stat which, like 3rd downs, is one of the most critical and in which we did rather well in 2012.

Red Zone scoring (TDs). In 2012 we were 4th best in defending the Red Zone. It was noticeable to me watching most of the games, that we had improved in that area. But I did not realize until I looked up the stat for 2012 that we were ranked 4th best with 46% TDs allowed in the Red Zone. That is huge, and would usually, along with scoring an ave of 3.5 more points than we allowed, result in at least 2-3 more wins than we finished with.

Conversely, we were 13th / 14th in offensive Red Zone scoring (between 54-55%), nearly identical to that of 2011. That hurt us in at least the 1st Eagles game and the 2nd Redskins game.

[giantsfan420]

You're right about the pick-up in our defense in the post season. But I also think it's important to factor in their last 2 reg season games as the beginning of their defensive improvement, which I think you'll agree was a large part of the reason for that 6 game run. And is the reason I consider comparing 2012 season to 2011 reg season numbers as a valid comparison, as far as they go.

Yes, the 3rd dwn percentage hurt us in a major way in most of our losses, which I was trying to say was more meaningful to our losses than mere total yards allowed, which again, I think most would agree.

But I neglected to include another defensive stat which, like 3rd downs, is one of the most critical and in which we did rather well in 2012.

Red Zone scoring (TDs). In 2012 we were 4th best in defending the Red Zone. It was noticeable to me watching most of the games, that we had improved in that area. But I did not realize until I looked up the stat for 2012 that we were ranked 4th best with 46% TDs allowed in the Red Zone. That is huge, and would usually, along with scoring an ave of 3.5 more points than we allowed, result in at least 2-3 more wins than we finished with.

Conversely, we were 13th / 14th in offensive Red Zone scoring, nearly identical to that of 2011. That hurt us in at least the 1st Eagles game and the 2nd Redskins game.

every post u make impresses me man lol dang, you got one functioning brain there pal...lucky you. I hope to be able to make such a claim one day lol. but yeah I agree with you, as usual.

[giantsfan420]

The Defense was worse than the Offense for sure but the Defense wasnt the worst Giants defense ever . The Offense had its hiccups in 6 games they failed to score 20 points and they lost every 1. The 7th game they lost they scored exactly 20.
U cant expect to win games in this era not scoring 20 points

There was a huge difference in the Defense in games K Phillips played. In the games Phillips played they gave up 18 ppg in games he didnt 25.5. Looked like to me Fewell was willing to be more aggressive with coverage when he played

agreed.


btw, you and gmen46 should get together and open up a website based on a sorta "football for dummies" theme. both you two, and a few others around here, really really know their stuff but more importantly can convey it in a way that can be understood by us "normies" lol...

[Buddy333]

"3rd down defense is a huge element that decides success/failure of a defense" very true.

So was 3rd down offense.

[Buddy333]

The Defense was worse than the Offense for sure but the Defense wasnt the worst Giants defense ever . The Offense had its hiccups in 6 games they failed to score 20 points and they lost every 1. The 7th game they lost they scored exactly 20.U cant expect to win games in this era not scoring 20 points

The defense was bad, but the offense was worse.

[Drez]

You're right about the pick-up in our defense in the post season. But I also think it's important to factor in their last 2 reg season games as the beginning of their defensive improvement, which I think you'll agree was a large part of the reason for that 6 game run. And is the reason I consider comparing 2012 season to 2011 reg season numbers as a valid comparison, as far as they go.

Yes, the 3rd dwn percentage hurt us in a major way in most of our losses, which I was trying to say was more meaningful to our losses than mere total yards allowed, which again, I think most would agree.

But I neglected to include another defensive stat which, like 3rd downs, is one of the most critical and in which we did rather well in 2012.

Red Zone scoring (TDs). In 2012 we were 4th best in defending the Red Zone. It was noticeable to me watching most of the games, that we had improved in that area. But I did not realize until I looked up the stat for 2012 that we were ranked 4th best with 46% TDs allowed in the Red Zone. That is huge, and would usually, along with scoring an ave of 3.5 more points than we allowed, result in at least 2-3 more wins than we finished with.

Conversely, we were 13th / 14th in offensive Red Zone scoring (between 54-55%), nearly identical to that of 2011. That hurt us in at least the 1st Eagles game and the 2nd Redskins game.

A big issue with the defense was the sheer number of big plays allowed. I think we gave up something like over 40 plays of over 20 yards. We were the third or fourth worst team in the league.