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Thread: 168 REC, 2,628 yards, 15.6 YPC, 19 TD

  1. #81
    All-Pro gmen0820's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelousmik View Post
    Again, I made the penny reference in order for you to be able to read between the lines a little better. I value the slot guy more because i feel its easier to find outside guys. Ill give you one more example. If i had to choose only 1 good receiver. An outside guy or a slot guy. Of course i would rather the outside guy because he is worth more to a team. However, since we can have more than 1 receiver i value the slot guy more because i believe we can find another good outside receiver before we would be able to find another great slot guy. If you understand the point i am trying to make, you would understand my logic. I am not saying that I am correct. I'm just letting you know how i look at things.
    So are you suggesting that dominant split-ends can't play the slot effectively?

    Would they lose all feel for effective route running as they go against nickel corners? Would they forget how to catch altogether?

  2. #82
    All-Pro gmen0820's Avatar
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    I guess what I'm asking is, what physical skill-set is unique to slot receivers?

  3. #83
    All-Pro TheAnalyst's Avatar
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    We can't resign Nicks and Cruz unless Eli sheds some money. He jumps from 10M to 20M against the cap this year. I actually would consider Cruz over Nicks because Randle is more of a Nicks mould and most likely will be a much healthier athlete. Nicks is a beast though when healthy. Tough situation.
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by gumby74 View Post
    To be honest, I've seen only a little bit of Roddy White. So I can't really comment.

    The reason why I value physicality is this. When you're physical, you can make catches in traffic. You don't need to be 100% open to make the grab. You don't need as much separation. In short, it lessens that pressure on the QB by being that bailout guy. No time? Chuck it up there and see what happens! Calvin Johnson will get it. It's much harder finding this kind of physicality than it is the other stuff. How many times have we heard here on the boards, "Our WRs get no separation". If you have physical WRs, separation isn't as big a deal. I also want a guy that can go across the middle, get blown up, and still make the grab.

    I'm not saying Cruz isn't a top WR. He is. And he deserves good money. It's just that if I need to pay top tier money for him, I'd rather get someone else. Cruz's skill set imo is far more replaceable than say Calvin Johnson or even Hakeem Nicks.

    What makes this even more difficult is that Cruz and Nicks contracts are up at the same time. So it's not like we can stagger their contracts. If I had only on e contract to give, it would go to Nicks - assuming he's healthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelousmik View Post
    I dont think this is true. its a lot easier to find someone like nicks than to find a cruz. Quick, in 10 seconds name 3 slot receivers in the NFL besides cruz and welker.

    Lol it would take you a lot longer to name 3 good slot receivers than to name 3 good receivers who line up on the outside. You probably dont know of any other good slot receivers. Honestly, there are a ton of guys now who can do what nicks does and win the jump balls. Randell showcased that ability later this season. And I can probably name you about 15 other guys in the league. Finding a home run hitter who can score from anywhere, and make people miss the way cruz does in the open field is harder to find in my opinion.

    Calvin johnson is in a totally different league from both nicks or cruz. Hes a rare talent and there isnt another receiver like him in the NFL really.
    I guess we'll agree to disagree.

    People can't name 3 really good slot receivers because imo, they're for the lack of a better term - non-descript. Slot guys aren't getting the money for a reason. They just aren't as valuable or are easier to find and replace.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by gumby74 View Post
    To be honest, I've seen only a little bit of Roddy White. So I can't really comment.

    The reason why I value physicality is this. When you're physical, you can make catches in traffic. You don't need to be 100% open to make the grab. You don't need as much separation. In short, it lessens that pressure on the QB by being that bailout guy. No time? Chuck it up there and see what happens! Calvin Johnson will get it. It's much harder finding this kind of physicality than it is the other stuff. How many times have we heard here on the boards, "Our WRs get no separation". If you have physical WRs, separation isn't as big a deal. I also want a guy that can go across the middle, get blown up, and still make the grab.

    I'm not saying Cruz isn't a top WR. He is. And he deserves good money. It's just that if I need to pay top tier money for him, I'd rather get someone else. Cruz's skill set imo is far more replaceable than say Calvin Johnson or even Hakeem Nicks.

    What makes this even more difficult is that Cruz and Nicks contracts are up at the same time. So it's not like we can stagger their contracts. If I had only on e contract to give, it would go to Nicks - assuming he's healthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelousmik View Post
    A penny from the 1800's is more of value than a newly printed dollar. But the dollar is worth more. ( in terms of currency)

    an outside receiver is worth more than a slot receiver however, since outside receivers are a lot easier to find than slot receivers i value the slot guy more.

    If someone puts up 1200 yards from the outside and another person puts up 1200 from the slot, let me keep the slot guy and we can find someone else to play the outside. rarely would you see a slot receiver being this productive. That's just the way I look at it. if you look around the league you can probably find 15+ outside receivers with 1000+ yards. However you wont find many slot guys with that.

    I feel the same way when it comes to tight ends. If i had a choice between a young andre johnson, or a young Tony Gonzales, give me the tight end. we can always find another outside receiver. great tight ends are harder to come by.
    Again, you can look at it this way. You don't "know" of any good slot guys because they're dime a dozen (Slots like Cruz and Welker are not though). Slot WRs play a certain role in the offense. It's easier to find/replace that role. NFL economics pretty much says that. Once you have a slot that starts producing big plays like Welker/Cruz, then it starts overlapping with the outside. I'd say that most NFL don't expect their slot guy to give you outside like ability. And because of that, teams are not willing to pay a premium for that. It's something that they see as nice, but not necessary. You already have players that already fulfill that role as the outside guy.

    To put it in real life terms. If I need to drive 1 mile to the parking lot every day for work and I'm short on money. Do I buy a Toyota or a Ferrari. The Ferrari will get me their faster and has some other perks, but the Toyota will do the job well enough. You go with the Toyota.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by gumby74 View Post
    .You don't "know" of any good slot guys because they're dime a dozen
    If they were a dime a dozen id know a lot of slot receivers with the type of production cruz and welker gives.(1000+ yards a season) That goes for you too.

    (Slots like Cruz and Welker are not though).
    Exactly.

    And if you look at this list you will see that 1000+ yards for an outside receiver is the norm now.

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...2&d-447263-n=1
    Last edited by Marvelousmik; 01-25-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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  7. #87
    Cruz plays outside as well as the slot, though. Bit unfair labelling him a pure slot guy.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Flip Empty View Post
    Cruz plays outside as well as the slot, though. Bit unfair labelling him a pure slot guy.
    This is true. I dont know why people down play the slot so much. Steve smith averaged about 500 to 600 yards a season plying the slot. as soon as he was forced into the number 1 role when we only had him and manningham, he racked up 1200 yards. The fact that outside receivers are constantly putting up better numbers than slot receivers leads me to believe the slot might possibly be a harder position to play. It does come with more responsibility.
    Last edited by Marvelousmik; 01-25-2013 at 10:13 AM.
    Don't take it personal, we're just debating.

    ~Big Mike~


  9. #89
    Smith was a possession receiver, he could play the slot, but didn't have the speed to be a full time slot receiver like Hawkins, Harvin, Cruz, etc.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by gumby74 View Post
    To be honest, I've seen only a little bit of Roddy White. So I can't really comment.

    The reason why I value physicality is this. When you're physical, you can make catches in traffic. You don't need to be 100% open to make the grab. You don't need as much separation. In short, it lessens that pressure on the QB by being that bailout guy. No time? Chuck it up there and see what happens! Calvin Johnson will get it. It's much harder finding this kind of physicality than it is the other stuff. How many times have we heard here on the boards, "Our WRs get no separation". If you have physical WRs, separation isn't as big a deal. I also want a guy that can go across the middle, get blown up, and still make the grab.

    I'm not saying Cruz isn't a top WR. He is. And he deserves good money. It's just that if I need to pay top tier money for him, I'd rather get someone else. Cruz's skill set imo is far more replaceable than say Calvin Johnson or even Hakeem Nicks.

    What makes this even more difficult is that Cruz and Nicks contracts are up at the same time. So it's not like we can stagger their contracts. If I had only on e contract to give, it would go to Nicks - assuming he's healthy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelousmik View Post
    If they were a dime a dozen id know a lot of slot receivers with the type of production cruz and welker gives.(1000+ yards a season) That goes for you too.



    Exactly.

    And if you look at this list you will see that 1000+ yards for an outside receiver is the norm now.

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...2&d-447263-n=1
    It goes beyond productivity though and that's really my point. Wes Welker can have a 1700 yard season with 25 TDs, and Calvin Johnson, Fitz, and all those other guys will still command more money even if their stats aren't as good.

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