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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    It depends on perspective. I don't see Cruz as a one hit wonder with no future value.
    I doubt he's a system player like some speculate but he doesn't come off as a "can't miss" player like Megatron is with the Lions or AP is with the Vikings.

    Anyway, I think something around 5 years/$55mil with around 10-20 guaranteed is a very reasonable expectation for a long term solution between the two sides.

  2. #102
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    They won a lot of games with Eli and Lawrence Taylor too.
    And soon Eli won't be on the team either. Have to just do your best to place dollar values on a guys production on the field and stick to that. For $10 million + a first round pick could they find another 1300 yard receiver? Well welker is a free agent. And he could probably be had for $10 million or less a season. Perhaps not a long term solution. But there are always options.

  3. #103
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/stor...ew-york-giants

    Excerpt: "Cruz will be a restricted free agent but the receiver hopes he remains a priority for Giants brass. The Giants have several free agents and are projected to be $4.7 million over the cap for 2013.

    "I think so, I would hope so," Cruz said of being a priority. "I consider myself as a pretty high priority in the Giants organization right now. Hopefully, they feel the same way and we can get to an agreement."

    If the two sides do not come to an agreement on an extension by March 12 when free agency begins, the Giants will likely give Cruz a first-round, restricted free-agent, one-year tender of $2.879 million. The Giants will receive a first-round pick as compensation if Cruz signs an offer with another team and the Giants opt not to match."I have no feeling whether I want to be tendered, how I feel about it," Cruz said when asked by reporters about the RFA tender. "Either way, I just want to come to an agreement where something will keep me in New York." Read more...


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    # 80

  4. #104
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    And soon Eli won't be on the team either. Have to just do your best to place dollar values on a guys production on the field and stick to that. For $10 million + a first round pick could they find another 1300 yard receiver? Well welker is a free agent. And he could probably be had for $10 million or less a season. Perhaps not a long term solution. But there are always options.
    Options abound. I still prefer Cruz play and retire here.
    Last edited by RoanokeFan; 01-31-2013 at 03:31 PM.
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    # 80

  5. #105
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    As I just said, boley could get released this season before his contract ends. He will still have made almost twice as much as he was guaranteed. How is that insignificant?

    And restructures DO NOT pay the player less. They convert base salary into an up front guaranteed signing bonus.

    Players rarely seeing the total amount of the contract is not at all the same thing as saying the total value doesn't matter.
    That is not always true at all about the restructure.
    Sometimes a team will ask a player to redo his deal or be released. Ala Kerry Collins in 2004. He refused but if he had agreed, he would have taken a huge pay cut. In the case of Eli, he restructured to make 2012 more cap friendly but probably got more money overall to do it.

    I'm not saying that the guaranteed money is all a player gets. I'm saying that when the guaranteed is paid, its completely up to the team as to whether or not a contract is continued. If they believe the player is worth it at the time,(like Michael Boley) they keep it in place. If not they can ask for a restructure or the player can be released. The point is the team has all the power at that time. The only thing they have to honor is the guarantee.
    Get well soon 80.

  6. #106
    Plenty of time to get a deal done, I'm not worried..yet

  7. #107
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    Unless all he gets are average deals as an RFA and signs one of them. Then the giants match and keep him for average money.
    I just don't see Reese doing that, but I guess anything can happen. Let's say Reese tenders Cruz which, it has been reported, pays him $2.88M for 2013. Team "A" who has a real need for a play maker receiver and plenty of CAP space, says we'll pay you $11.5M per year for 5 years, $22M guaranteed. Reese matches that in the end. Doesn't that make him look a little silly?
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  8. #108
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    I just don't see Reese doing that, but I guess anything can happen. Let's say Reese tenders Cruz which, it has been reported, pays him $2.88M for 2013. Team "A" who has a real need for a play maker receiver and plenty of CAP space, says we'll pay you $11.5M per year for 5 years, $22M guaranteed. Reese matches that in the end. Doesn't that make him look a little silly?
    If they tender Cruz and he ends up back with the Giants, they will most certainly negotiate a contract instead of paying the 1 year tender.
    It would be shocking to me if Cruz didn't end up with a multi year deal with the Giants. Its just not in anybody's interest.
    Get well soon 80.

  9. #109
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    That is not always true at all about the restructure.
    Sometimes a team will ask a player to redo his deal or be released. Ala Kerry Collins in 2004. He refused but if he had agreed, he would have taken a huge pay cut. In the case of Eli, he restructured to make 2012 more cap friendly but probably got more money overall to do it.

    I'm not saying that the guaranteed money is all a player gets. I'm saying that when the guaranteed is paid, its completely up to the team as to whether or not a contract is continued. If they believe the player is worth it at the time,(like Michael Boley) they keep it in place. If not they can ask for a restructure or the player can be released. The point is the team has all the power at that time. The only thing they have to honor is the guarantee.
    Taking a paycut is not the same thing as a restructure. Restructures just move the money around.

    Eli did not get additional money. The overall numbers stayed exactly the same. He just converted base to a bonus. Which prorates the money in terms of the cap.

    And you keep saying that the overall money is meaningless. When it's clearly not.

    And as for teams having all the power when the guaranteed money runs out. Well sort of. It depends on the structure. Having a large signing bonus would mean the team is still on the hook in regards to the salary cap and cutting the player would result in a worse situation. Like the jets with Sanchez. His guaranteed money is gone but it would cost them far more cap dollars to release him than keep him.

    In any case the total dollar amount of a contract is extremely important.

    Cruz is not going to sign a contract that pays roughly half of what Brown got just because he had $10 more guaranteed.

  10. #110
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    I just don't see Reese doing that, but I guess anything can happen. Let's say Reese tenders Cruz which, it has been reported, pays him $2.88M for 2013. Team "A" who has a real need for a play maker receiver and plenty of CAP space, says we'll pay you $11.5M per year for 5 years, $22M guaranteed. Reese matches that in the end. Doesn't that make him look a little silly?
    I'm not sure I follow. Who is made to look silly there and why?

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