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  1. #61
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    You are making a separate argument. I'm not talking about structure of the deal. Just the total money. Which is what the two sides disagree on. The total money is absolutely important in contracts. Otherwise players would just ask for guaranteed money and tell the team to not bother with the rest.
    Thats simply not true. The out years are very important for the clubs. They have the leverage to restructure down the road. The player want the most guaranteed money and the trade off is giving the team more years.
    The total amount of NFL contracts are rarely paid. With the cap, so many deals are restructured. Even Eli's. But the clubs don't want their players with the power to test the FA market. Thats why they want the years.

    So its NOT about the totality of the contract. Its about the guaranteed money (what the player is looking for) and the years (what the clubs are looking for)
    Get well soon 80.

  2. #62
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    I'm sure they did. Which would put the money at around $8-9 a season.
    I'm sticking with my prediction that I made several weeks ago. I say it ends up being something like 5 years, $28MM with $12MM or so guaranteed.
    Get well soon 80.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    Can't compare UFAs to an RFA with a first round tender.
    If teams get a chance to offer, sure you can. Odds are that they won't get what they expect to receive due to the tender attached and Cruz will sign it.

  4. #64
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    Thats simply not true. The out years are very important for the clubs. They have the leverage to restructure down the road. The player want the most guaranteed money and the trade off is giving the team more years.
    The total amount of NFL contracts are rarely paid. With the cap, so many deals are restructured. Even Eli's. But the clubs don't want their players with the power to test the FA market. Thats why they want the years.

    So its NOT about the totality of the contract. Its about the guaranteed money (what the player is looking for) and the years (what the clubs are looking for)
    This is completely and totally wrong.

    Yes it is true that players rarely reach the totals of the deals, however, that does not mean they aren't important.

    I'm not sure what you are talking about with restructures but those do not change the total money. Just covert base salary to a signing bonus that is paid up front to the player.

    But as far as your Eli example, if the only thing that mattered was guaranteed money and length of contract then lets see.

    Eli signed a 7 year contract with $35 million guaranteed.

    He had an original signing bonus of $13 mil, had an option bonus in 2010 of $12.5. Then his restructure paid him $9 mil up front

    That's $35 million right there. That's all he should have made, right?

    Well he still of course had his non guaranteed base salary, which over those years was another $25 million

    So Eli has so far made $60 million on his $35 mil guaranteed contract.

    Base salaries and total money are ABSOLUTELY important. Even if they are not paid out in full

  5. #65
    All-Pro jomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    Massive contract? Where do you read that?
    Fine print I guess.......so fine most of us can't see it.
    No one remembers who came in second.

  6. #66
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    This looks like it will drag on to August.

  7. #67
    All-Pro jomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    I'm sticking with my prediction that I made several weeks ago. I say it ends up being something like 5 years, $28MM with $12MM or so guaranteed.
    That would be very fair to the Giants. If it is good for Cruz, it's time to make that deal.
    No one remembers who came in second.

  8. #68
    All-Pro GameTime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    So Cruz puts a massive contract on the table. Then walks away and says they will agree to it eventually when they get desperate enough?

    Yea. He is getting tendered this year and walking away next year.

    Reese puts a value on guys and doesn't over pay them. Sorry Cruz.
    doesnt over pay??
    Baas
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    "Measure Twice......Cut Once"
    You couldn't be more full of **** if you were break dancing in a Port-a-Potty.......Kruunch

  9. #69
    All-Pro Delicreep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
    Problem with this theory is the Steve smith story. Smith was offered the "biggest contract of any giants WR in history" yet did not sign in hopes that he could make more money after looking at what other teams could offer. He then injured himself and his career is over.

    I'm not saying players should take any contract given, but if the giants did indeed offer him a fair deal then he may regret not taking it later.
    You switched sides, and you did it in a way that is a sure fire way to see this as un-resolvable.

    If Cruz has no interest in a long term contract with the Giants, then it is all a waste of time. There is absolutely no evidence that that is even remotely true.

    There is every indication that a deal is exactly what he wants, and he naturally wants the deal that gets him every dime.

    In the meantime, Cruz is doing the smartest thing possible: He's saying almost nothing. Remains upbeat and positive and talks about it being a process. All of this sends the signal that he wants this to work.
    This space for rent

  10. #70
    All-Pro slipknottin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheEnigma View Post
    If teams get a chance to offer, sure you can. Odds are that they won't get what they expect to receive due to the tender attached and Cruz will sign it.
    Eh? There is considerable more value a team is giving up if they are handing out a contract and a first round pick than of they were handing out just a contract. It's a poor comparison.

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