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Thread: We're not keeping Cruz, no way.

  1. #361
    All-Pro ny06's Avatar
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    Think Cruz would take an IOU?

    Giants fan since the early 80s

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    And that's not all on Cruz. But if you don't think he's entitled to a decent salary because he didn't excel in a few games, that's fine.
    Hey, 5 mil a year is good for him. So you are saying Nicks isn't good? He had 1,000 yards when Cruz was not playin for the Giants. You have to account for the other talents. They help each other out. You should understand that since you are older than me. I was born in 68 and get my knowledge from watching games and from coaches who are older than me and know by experience..

    Yes he should get a good salary that should be within limits.

  3. #363
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondring View Post
    Hey, 5 mil a year is good for him. So you are saying Nicks isn't good? He had 1,000 yards when Cruz was not playin for the Giants. You have to account for the other talents. They help each other out. You should understand that since you are older than me. I was born in 68 and get my knowledge from watching games and from coaches who are older than me and know by experience..

    Yes he should get a good salary that should be within limits.
    This has nothing to do with Nicks. There is no question Cruz and Nicks are each better when they are both on the field and healthy. Some feel Nicks is the better receiver and a growing number of folks seem to think Cruz is fast catching up with or even with Nicks in terms of performance. I don't think there's a huge difference between the two. Cruz, so far, has been more durable than Nicks.

    I've negotiated a lot of labor agreements and one thing I can say for sure. The contract you end up with looks nothing like either sides first proposal. We would all do well to simply wait and see what happens. So far, things seem to be going along as could be expected.

    And yes, I am older, so respect your elders
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1








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  4. #364
    All-Pro jomo's Avatar
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    I am trying to keep the emotion out of this (despite my chiding Victor for the infamous hat incident). It is true, as RF would say, that this is all just part of the negotiating dance. It is also true that last year he was just a very good NFL player and nowhere near as good as the year before. That could be said for most of our team.

    So if he is asking for top 5 receiver money leaving open the possibility of a hold out but signs for #15 money before training camp, this will all be just a bunch of posturing and I can live with that thought.
    No one remembers who came in second.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    This has nothing to do with Nicks. There is no question Cruz and Nicks are each better when they are both on the field and healthy. Some feel Nicks is the better receiver and a growing number of folks seem to think Cruz is fast catching up with or even with Nicks in terms of performance. I don't think there's a huge difference between the two. Cruz, so far, has been more durable than Nicks.

    I've negotiated a lot of labor agreements and one thing I can say for sure. The contract you end up with looks nothing like either sides first proposal. We would all do well to simply wait and see what happens. So far, things seem to be going along as could be expected.

    And yes, I am older, so respect your elders
    Yes sir, hahaaaa.

  6. #366
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomo View Post
    I am trying to keep the emotion out of this (despite my chiding Victor for the infamous hat incident). It is true, as RF would say, that this is all just part of the negotiating dance. It is also true that last year he was just a very good NFL player and nowhere near as good as the year before. That could be said for most of our team.

    So if he is asking for top 5 receiver money leaving open the possibility of a hold out but signs for #15 money before training camp, this will all be just a bunch of posturing and I can live with that thought.
    Exactly right and he said he think he's "top 10" and I think that's close to where he actually is. At least he's not singing the Moss "I am the greatest" song. I also agree with you that holding out is a no no, on so many levels. I have always found that you give up a lot to get relatively little when you do that.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1








    # 80

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    It's his whole body of work, not one season or an other. And now they add his 10 catch record in the Pro Bowl to his resume. YES, we can all say "it was the Pro Bowl" but no other receiver has ever done it and he caught those passes from three different receivers. It all factors into his NFL worth.

    Victor believes he's a top receiver and it's hard to argue with that. How "top" will be determined by the market. I think he's a top 10 - 15 receiver.
    I'm right with you about the top 10-15. I just dont think from a negotiations standpoint the Giants will look at Cruz's output as a whole over 2 years and say his contract is worth "X"... because in that case, he probably IS in the top 10.

    2011 he played in probably 14 meaningful regular season games, games 3-16 - he AVERAGED over 100 yds a game! He shined in the playoff game against the 9ers and, sorry, was average to above average at best in the others including the superbowl.

    2012 Cruz had a monster September which accounted for more than a 1/3 of his total yardage for the year. He was well on pace to hit another 1500 yard season. After September Cruz AVERAGED 59 yards a game.

    I'm no way saying Cruz doesnt deserve his payday, but theres no way a contract is going to be determined from a sum-total standpoint at least from the Giant's view especially since the bulk of it came in the 2011 season.
    80

  8. #368
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    Players really can't hold out anymore. They get fined 30k everyday.

  9. #369
    Moderator RoanokeFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imgrate View Post
    Players really can't hold out anymore. They get fined 30k everyday.
    They can still hold out, but there is the price. If Cruz were to hold out for 20 days, he'd pay more than his 2012 salary in fines
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” MB Rule # 1








    # 80

  10. #370
    All-Pro jomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoanokeFan View Post
    Exactly right and he said he think he's "top 10" and I think that's close to where he actually is. At least he's not singing the Moss "I am the greatest" song. I also agree with you that holding out is a no no, on so many levels. I have always found that you give up a lot to get relatively little when you do that.
    The holdout would be particularly perilous considering he's so intent on building "brand Cruz". ............I have to work on this sarcasm problem of mine in the New Year.

    Let's get this one put to bet and get to work on our O and D trenches.
    No one remembers who came in second.

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