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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy333 View Post
    The problem is consistency. The elite QB's put up great numbers no matter who they throw to.
    Brady's numbers weren't that great until the Pats loaded up the offense. Rodgers and Peyton have always had decent receivers... I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.

  2. #182
    All-Pro Morehead State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delicreep View Post
    OK...we need to come to terms here:

    Herm and Jaws pretty much have opposite opinions of Eli.
    Both can't be right
    But both are qualified to give their opinions based on the fact that both have intimate knowledge of football.

    No one should object to this. Neither you nor I are saying they are right, we are just saying that they are qualified to give an opinion.
    Right or wrong, they have the background to make an informed opinion*.

    Now...we differ in the fact that Herm was a miserable coach being a qualification, but the concept holds up without it.





    *we both have so far ignored the fact that all of these guys have biases and personal, emotional reactions, and some times their opinions are colored by them.
    What bias would Herm Edwards have against Eli? Makes no sense. Just doesn't seem to be that kind of guy. He has an opinion about our QB, which happens to be shared my many fans around the country. I thought the kids table comment was silly, but its TV. They like guys who are "colorful". Herm has a style that ESPN believes works on TV.

    Agree or disagree.....that's fine. But it comes down to one basic notion on this MB. If you dare to suggest that our QB is not an all time great, there are a group of posters here that will call you every name in the book. They will attack like a wild mob.
    I tend to call that **** out. Yes I am a major pain because I don't let it slide. My life here would be a lot easier if I did. But I feel strongly about it so there it is.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  3. #183
    All-Pro Delicreep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    What bias would Herm Edwards have against Eli? Makes no sense. Just doesn't seem to be that kind of guy. He has an opinion about our QB, which happens to be shared my many fans around the country. I thought the kids table comment was silly, but its TV. They like guys who are "colorful". Herm has a style that ESPN believes works on TV.

    Agree or disagree.....that's fine. But it comes down to one basic notion on this MB. If you dare to suggest that our QB is not an all time great, there are a group of posters here that will call you every name in the book. They will attack like a wild mob.
    I tend to call that **** out. Yes I am a major pain because I don't let it slide. My life here would be a lot easier if I did. But I feel strongly about it so there it is.
    I wasn't inferring that Herm had any personally bias against Eli. I was saying that they are all human, and it always is a factor.
    In this case, I also can't fathom a why Herm would be influenced in any way by a personal opinion.
    I was actually thinking about Jaws in general, the worlds biggest homer.

    Like I said, I didn't have an issue with Herm's concept OR his wording (it is what he is known for)

    And your last paragraph should be your signature.
    Personally, I have issues letting poor "Anti-Eli/Elite" posts slide by unchallenged. Argue it well, I have no issue; make a ridiculous point and I feel compelled to act. You rarely if ever make that ridiculous point.

    Right now, I am having trouble not responding to Buddy (who I agree with) but he's killing me with his arguments!!
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip Empty View Post
    Brady's numbers weren't that great until the Pats loaded up the offense. Rodgers and Peyton have always had decent receivers... I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.
    Maybe his first couple of years where not great but his numbers are simply great. He has guys come and go due to contract or injuries and his numbers are always good.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harooni View Post
    that is a good point about all those Qb's getting in the HOF, However now we have a different NFL you get matt stafford putting up 5000 yards and a matt ryan throwing 32 TD's in a season.

    You are going to have to have way better stats then guys 15- 20 years ago folks.
    Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford are both excellent QBs, so I don't understand why there is always an issue with those guys.

  6. #186
    All-Pro Delicreep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy333 View Post
    Maybe his first couple of years where not great but his numbers are simply great. He has guys come and go due to contract or injuries and his numbers are always good.
    Specifically, tell me what numbers Brady, Brees Peyton and Rodgers have that Eli doesn't.

    And before you start, the issue will be that it is likely that at least one of them will have numbers that match Eli is almost any category you select.

    They are not elite because you can point to a stat or a stat line.
    This space for rent

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harooni View Post
    thank you
    see he likes being called out. when he was called skittish by the GM, he stepped it up. tiki comments he stepped it up. when he said he was as good as brady ,people laughed and mocked and Eli delivered . now herm -lets see.
    I think the only reason Eli was even asked about Tiki's comments is because he was an ex teammate.

    "I think Tiki really showed great leadership last season by calling out the coaches and making public statements about retiring when we were worrying about trying to make playoffs" and "It's nice to see Tiki making such a smooth transition in to his new career" were both classic Eli responses when asked about Tiki's comments. I highly doubt that Eli is even ever asked about Herm's comments because Herm just isn't important enough.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by nygfanmaybe View Post
    I am going to call BS on this statement simply because if he were the best QB in the game today, you would know that his last name is Rodgers and not Rogers. JMO, though.
    Exactly. Tom Brady is The Best QB in NFL right now.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by B&RWarrior View Post
    Huge flaw in your logic. The best way to measure a QB is performance. SB victories alone is a poorer measure of a QB's ability than a Qbs actual performance. You can win SBs with defense and a strong running game, none of which have 1 to 1 correlations with QB play. Big Ben had both on his SB winning teams. There are more of those "exceptions" that you listed that contradict your point. Jim Kelly never won a SB and Jim McMahon won one, but who would you rather be your QB? Warren Moon or Flacco? Eli has 2 SBs and AR has one, but by your logic Eli is the better QB because he has more SB victories.

    Elite is just a term used to describe QB's who's play is head and shoulders above their peers. IMO, Eli's play over HIS ENTIRE CAREER doesn't justify this label.
    As an overall regular season QB you would be right. In regard to post season play, I would take Eli Manning over Aaron Rodgers without thinking twice. Eli is head and shoulder better than Aaron Rodgers in post season. Also, I would take Joe Flacco over Warren Moon in a heartbeat. Warren Moon was a very overrated QB.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhpgiantsfan View Post
    I think Nicks had a lot more to do with Eli's year than you're willing to admit. You can't expect any QB to lose a player like that and not suffer a statistical drop off. I mean just look at Eli's performance for the one game that Nicks played like himself. What was it 4 TDs in the 4th quarter against Tampa?
    Hakeem Nicks is our best receiver. His injury really hurt us this year. What also hurt was losing Mario Manningham, the guy stretches defenses with his speed. Regardless of those losses, we still had a chance to make a run and Eli made some bone headed decisions at critical times that really cost us. We had more injuries in 2011 but Eli didn't make those mistakes, he was the difference that season. Granted, our defense was awful in 2012, our OC was even worse than usual and we lost some players on offense to injury and free agency. However, if Eli had performed at his 2011 level, I think we would have won the division and made the playoffs. I will give Eli credit where it is due because our lives and dies by him, so I must also be critical when he does do poorly.

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