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Thread: this class of rbs makes me thankful for wilson

  1. #51
    People know I love Wilson going into the draft. I had him higher then most here. However, even I would have never guessed that he would go ahead of Cordy Glenn and at the time we picked when I saw what was on the board, I was thinking Glenn..

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Imgrate View Post
    Really? No sort of impact. Do you even watch them play?
    enlighten me. of the players u listed, who played at such a level as to say that it was a waste not taking one of those guys and picking wilson? bc I do watch most of the teams the players u listed play on. and it was tough to watch them play, bc they werent even on the field all that much. perhaps reyes could be argued, but even he was a situational player for them who didnt do a whole lot.
    pls, instead of resorting to fallacy and "did u even watch them play" remarks, post some data to prove ur point...of those guys u listed a few pages ago, who had this great rookie campaign compared to wilson?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    enlighten me. of the players u listed, who played at such a level as to say that it was a waste not taking one of those guys and picking wilson? bc I do watch most of the teams the players u listed play on. and it was tough to watch them play, bc they werent even on the field all that much. perhaps reyes could be argued, but even he was a situational player for them who didnt do a whole lot.
    pls, instead of resorting to fallacy and "did u even watch them play" remarks, post some data to prove ur point...of those guys u listed a few pages ago, who had this great rookie campaign compared to wilson?
    If you were around last draft you would know that I was a HUGE Wilson guy. I predicted a week before the draft that we would and should draft Wilson.
    'Having said that, Wilson did NOT have a good rookie season. He definitely showed flashes, but generally he was a non factor to our team last season. We can blame TC for benching him for half a season (and I have) but he just didn't contribute to the offense like I had hoped.
    His KO returns was a pleseant surprise but with the ball being kicked from the 35, even that impact was minimized.

    So these other guys that Lawl mentioned all have to be measured in the long term, just like Wilson. To say that they didn't contribute last season to their teams (and that's debatable) misses the point.
    So the jury is out on all these guys. Lawl has his theory about picking RB's early, and I respect it (and disagree with it as well). But his theory hasn't been confirmed or discredited by the play of any of these guys, including Wilson.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by nycsportzfan View Post
    I would of taken Cordy Glenn if i was picking there personally... Shoot, i'd of taken Casey Hayward there, as i thought he was the 2nd best CB in last yrs draft class... GUys who are gonna end up splitting the load with anotehr RB isn't worth the 1st rd... Now if Dougie Martin was there, thats diffrent... I'd of taken Coby Fleener over him as well..

    But, all that said, hes intriguing and had his moments last yr, and i definetly think hes gonna have some great moments this yr....
    see, i think passing on glenn last yr kinda works for my lil theory. imo, JR is gonna have extensive knowledge of the next 3 or 4 draft classes. I mean dont misconstrue that to mean he has a big board or knows every guy who will declare. but more along the lines he has an idea of the strengths and weaknesses of a particular class.
    last yr, the talent at OT dropped off after the premium guys. Glenn, iirc, had some physical limitations that worried teams. Imo, its plausible that JR understood that this class, outside a Lattimore and maybe Lacy, was gonna be a poor rb class but a very very good trenches draft. so instead of reaching for glenn last yr, and pushing off the rb issue (imo, it would have been more important/needed to draft a rb this offseason compared to last bc we lost 27 last yr, ok sux, but losing 44 hurts the offense much more) he took perhaps the last rb to possess the skill set wilson had for not only last draft class but this one as well.
    for me, in terms of prospects/talent, there isnt a rb who comes close to wilson in this draft. i know a couple guys posted insane 40x, but wilson impressed in every drill, and he has a body of work that trumps pretty much every high quality rb in this draft outside Lattimore (and even he is close). Wilson led the ncaa in YAC and was all american irrc. Guys like Niles and Ball r intriguing, Lattimore too but those devastating injuries, Lacey seems like a more legit A.Morris type rb, but still, i believe there isnt 1 rb in this class who has a ceiling even close to wilson. and considering this draft class strength is the trenches, i dont see the method we drafted and players we chose correlated to draft class and this yrs poor rb class as a coincidence.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    If you were around last draft you would know that I was a HUGE Wilson guy. I predicted a week before the draft that we would and should draft Wilson.
    'Having said that, Wilson did NOT have a good rookie season. He definitely showed flashes, but generally he was a non factor to our team last season. We can blame TC for benching him for half a season (and I have) but he just didn't contribute to the offense like I had hoped.
    His KO returns was a pleseant surprise but with the ball being kicked from the 35, even that impact was minimized.

    So these other guys that Lawl mentioned all have to be measured in the long term, just like Wilson. To say that they didn't contribute last season to their teams (and that's debatable) misses the point.
    So the jury is out on all these guys. Lawl has his theory about picking RB's early, and I respect it (and disagree with it as well). But his theory hasn't been confirmed or discredited by the play of any of these guys, including Wilson.
    well thats not my point tho. imgrate, is he lawl? listed players that would have clearly been an upgrade to wilson, im asking him to quantify it. bc i watched a lot of those guys play, and honestly, not 1 of the players he listed as sure fire piks over wilson really did much of anything...and if we're just talking in terms of "contributing", who outontributed wilson and his ST play for us this yr? he did make the probowl and also set a franchise record one game...
    Reyes? Glenn? He listed half a dozen guys or so who didnt do muh of anything and claimed that the picking of wilson meant we couldnt address "no dl depth, 1 corner, no OL, etc." in a way that implies had we taken one of those ther guys, we dont have those issues...

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    see, i think passing on glenn last yr kinda works for my lil theory. imo, JR is gonna have extensive knowledge of the next 3 or 4 draft classes. I mean dont misconstrue that to mean he has a big board or knows every guy who will declare. but more along the lines he has an idea of the strengths and weaknesses of a particular class.
    last yr, the talent at OT dropped off after the premium guys. Glenn, iirc, had some physical limitations that worried teams. Imo, its plausible that JR understood that this class, outside a Lattimore and maybe Lacy, was gonna be a poor rb class but a very very good trenches draft. so instead of reaching for glenn last yr, and pushing off the rb issue (imo, it would have been more important/needed to draft a rb this offseason compared to last bc we lost 27 last yr, ok sux, but losing 44 hurts the offense much more) he took perhaps the last rb to possess the skill set wilson had for not only last draft class but this one as well.
    for me, in terms of prospects/talent, there isnt a rb who comes close to wilson in this draft. i know a couple guys posted insane 40x, but wilson impressed in every drill, and he has a body of work that trumps pretty much every high quality rb in this draft outside Lattimore (and even he is close). Wilson led the ncaa in YAC and was all american irrc. Guys like Niles and Ball r intriguing, Lattimore too but those devastating injuries, Lacey seems like a more legit A.Morris type rb, but still, i believe there isnt 1 rb in this class who has a ceiling even close to wilson. and considering this draft class strength is the trenches, i dont see the method we drafted and players we chose correlated to draft class and this yrs poor rb class as a coincidence.

    JR is a smart guy but you are giving him way too much credit. You can never know how college players will develop, at least not to the extent that you are suggesting.
    Its much more of a crap shoot than you are suggesting.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Imgrate View Post
    glenn branch worthy jenkins or reyes. Among others.
    which one of these guys had a rookie campaign that justifies saying "we should have went with him over wilson."

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Morehead State View Post
    JR is a smart guy but you are giving him way too much credit. You can never know how college players will develop, at least not to the extent that you are suggesting.
    Its much more of a crap shoot than you are suggesting.
    i was trying to answer this before it was asked and apparently did a poor job. i dont mean it in the sense JR knows his big board and who the top 25 or 50 players will be. i mean it in the sense he can prob look at the class as a whole, and have a good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of that class. it could be on ongoing process as well. meaning JR could have scouts working on the next class specifically and its a continually updated thing. perhaps by last draft class, JR had a solid understanding of the strengths of this class. remember, he did make a comment about a run on the quality rbs...perhaps the next class of rbs weighed in on his decision is all im saying...imo its plausible JR saw Wilson on the board, after Martin had just been picked, and knowing Wilsns measurables/skill set was going to be favorable vs any rb not only in his class (wilsons) but the next class as well...he opted to take wilson, bypass glenn having an understanding the next class would be chock full of quality OL/DL

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    well thats not my point tho. imgrate, is he lawl? listed players that would have clearly been an upgrade to wilson, im asking him to quantify it. bc i watched a lot of those guys play, and honestly, not 1 of the players he listed as sure fire piks over wilson really did much of anything...and if we're just talking in terms of "contributing", who outontributed wilson and his ST play for us this yr? he did make the probowl and also set a franchise record one game...
    Reyes? Glenn? He listed half a dozen guys or so who didnt do muh of anything and claimed that the picking of wilson meant we couldnt address "no dl depth, 1 corner, no OL, etc." in a way that implies had we taken one of those ther guys, we dont have those issues...
    You can't quantify until they've all been in the league a few years.
    A RB can have an immediate impact. A LT or corner tend to take a lot longer to develop.
    As I understand his (and yes he's Lawl) position, RB's need to contribute right away because their shelf life in the NFL is shorter. So since Wilson didn't have the kind of season I'm sure JR had hoped for, he's suggesting that that works against his being drafted.
    In one respect i would tend to agree. You have to measure the early play of players differently. A corne or O lineman won't tend to produce as early as a RB would. Its just the reality of the league.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by giantsfan420 View Post
    which one of these guys had a rookie campaign that justifies saying "we should have went with him over wilson."
    Again...Using a rookie season to gauge the quality of a pick is a poor way to evaluate.
    It takes several years to do that.
    "Phil Simms is the greatest QB in Giants history" ........Mahatma Gandhi

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