They said last night on MNF

[Tony Bruno]

That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good...

So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible...

Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period

[GameTime]

[quote user="Tony Bruno"]That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period[/quote]</P>


</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


</P>

[nyginpattown]

The play clock has always been an issue with me. I watched last nights MNF. After a play the Saints players give the ref the ball, get to the huddle immediately, multiple substitutions are made, and they are at the line with 20 seconds left on the play clock for Brees to read the defense. I ask you, how much better would Eli be with that kind of time luxury?

[Vtgmenfan89]

I think the offense itself is a good offense, but that damn guy with the mustache is truly the issue. Too much of the same stuff in the same situations, play is always in late, and we still almost never score a TD in the 1st half which is not going to win very many games, part of the reason we're 2-5 since the midway point. I mean come on every single time ware is split out wide, it's a screen. Never another play. Saints had sproles out wide last night, went to him one time, then never again if he or another rb was out there. Try that one to cruz or nicks for once, then its not seen a mile away.

KG's play calling is good maybe 4 games a season, it's pretty sad. I mean we have like 5 red zone plays, if that. HB draw, fade, slant that wrs always mess up and run a fade or vice versa, very rarely that nice play action play we used to win pats games, and the occasional big formation to run it in. I've watched every snap this year and I cant really think of anything else down there. Pretty sad. very rarely try to get a mismatch with a TE like the pats or saints, I know we don't have a guy of their te's caliber but it's not like we give them much of a shot either. Sort of got rambling here, just really can't stand how predictable this offense is and it's a big reason we collapse every year, IMO.

Oh and if I could give KG 10 grand to call a Hb screen out if the backfield against a blitz heavy defense, he'd prob scoff at me and say it works way better his way..... When that play has worked maybe twice for a combined gain if 10 yards. I won't even get into the medium-long passing routes he keeps calling when our o line's protection sucked. I mean come on. Guys almost got Eli killed a few times this year

[brad]

Can't really argue against that, but... conversely, are they better because of the system or because of skill? Look at the systems that those other QB's play and the system the Giants run. The Giants are a conservative version of the "chuck and duck" offenses that KG ran with other teams... big plays when it works but difficult because the plays take a long time to develop, giving defenses time to get after the QB. In my opinion, Eli would be a better QB if the Giants implemented a system more closely resembling the "west coast" style passing game and ran the ball more. With receivers like Nix and Cruz that have the ability to make things happen after the catch, you don't have to go downfield so often to make the big plays.

[jakegibbs]

[quote user="GameTime"]

[quote user="Tony Bruno"]That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period[/quote]</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


*</P>[/quote]

My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake.

What the heck are you looking at?

1. Drew Brees NO 5087
2. Tom Brady NE 4897
3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643
4. Eli Manning NYG 4587

[Vtgmenfan89]

Oh I also forgot to mention the 3rd down play calling.. I know Eli is the one throwing the balls, but the plays are still long developing plays that are either way to far on a 3rd and short, or way or short on a 3rd and long. We never seem to get those right, and that falls on KG as much as Eli. Saints offense was 8/8 on 3rd down at one point last night and that's just when i stopped counting..... Ibrees is obviously one of the best right now, but Jesus why cant we take a leaf out of that offense sometimes and just simply be more efficient at staying on the field? Our defense looks even worse than they play sometimes because they're on the field forever. Webster jpp and rolle all took over 100 snaps on d in jets game...we're lucky no one is on IR after that game. Pathetic! I like the big plays this offense generates but we take shots at all the wrong times more often that not.

[GameTime]

[quote user="jakegibbs"][quote user="GameTime"]


[quote user="Tony Bruno"]That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period[/quote]</P>


</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


</P>


[/quote] My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake. What the heck are you looking at? 1. Drew Brees NO 5087 2. Tom Brady NE 4897 3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643 4. Eli Manning NYG 4587[/quote]</P>


I plainly stated I am not looking at stats. I am looking at the QBs ....how they play....they passes they make....their athleticism. IMO they are all better QBs then Eli. Not just this year but overall. </P>


What am I looking at.?? I am looking at better QBs.....period. </P>


As I stated I love Eli. I love Eli as a NYG and I have since day 1. </P>


I dont give a **** how they pay him. I always think he can get the job done. BUT....I also dont think he is the best QB out there. I think he is top 5 or so. But there is not one thing wrong with me saying that Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady are better. Because quite simply....they are....</P>

[jakegibbs]

[quote user="GameTime"][quote user="jakegibbs"][quote user="GameTime"]


[quote user="Tony Bruno"]That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period[/quote]</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


*</P>


[/quote] My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake. What the heck are you looking at? 1. Drew Brees NO 5087 2. Tom Brady NE 4897 3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643 4. Eli Manning NYG 4587[/quote]</P>


I plainly stated I am not looking at stats. I am looking at the QBs ....how they play....they passes they make....their athleticism. IMO they are all better QBs then Eli. Not just this year but overall. </P>


What am I looking at.?? I am looking at better QBs.....period. </P>


As I stated I love Eli. I love Eli as a NYG and I have since day 1. </P>


I dont give a **** how they pay him. I always think he can get the job done. BUT....I also dont think he is the best QB out there. I think he is top 5 or so. But there is not one thing wrong with me saying that Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady are better. Because quite simply....they are....</P>[/quote]

Eli has a faster 40 time than Brady & I think ties Breez if you don't believe me look it up so there goes your more athletic QB right out the you know what.

[burier]

[quote user="GameTime"]

[quote user="Tony Bruno"]That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period[/quote]</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


*</P>[/quote]

Strongly disagree.

I think there's a legit argument for all of those guys but I'd really only entertain arguments for Rogers and big brother being better but even Rogers needed a run and some help to get into the playoffs last year.

I live in Boston and I get a fair dose of Tom Brady and he's overrated. Always has been. He's a system QB who shines due to getting the best pass protection of any QB in recent memory. He looks the like a Legend when he gets to stand in the pocket all day. Otherwise he's very very very ordinary. Eli makes throws with people in his face and falling on top of him that Brady just cannot make.

Not mention we've seen Eli and Brady on the same field three times now and Brady has yet to show anything to suggest he's head and shoulders better than Eli. Do you believe ESPN over your own eyes???

You said you don't care about stats and that's fine but Eli's numbers from last season (Ya know the season where Eli was not named even a top 100 player in the League and Brees was a named a top 5 Quarterback) Are very similar to Brees's numbers and that's with Eli playing with a revolving door at oline and reciever, outdoors, in the NFC East. Eli to me is more clutch and a better verticle thrower of the football than Drew Brees (Not to mention you're gonna be hard pressed to find anyone who would call KGs offense as good as Sean Paytons from a scheme standpoint)

Why does no one consider quality of opponent in these debates???

Now Rogers and Big Brother are great players but Eli has shown that he's the most clutch player in the league and that not just this season. That's over his career.

I'd say that all of those Qb's do certain things better than Eli but I'd rebuke anyone who's gonna tell me that there's someone who's out of Eli's class